Hello, welcome to Tina's Corner Podcast. We are a group of like minded sign language interpreters set out to improve the field of sign language interpreting. We have deaf hearing, and deaf blind consumers, and both hearing and deaf interpreters. And the focus of this podcast is to strengthen the bond between these groups of individuals, all persons, regardless of years of experience will benefit. I am Tina Perry, and I welcome you. Today I have invited Royce Carpenter to share her insights and her experiences so that others can see that interpreters travel different roads on their journey, only to arrive at the same destination, equality of information for all consumers. Welcome Royce.
Royce:Hello, Tina. Thanks for having me.
Tina:Well, thank you for taking the time out to do this. I know you've been a very busy person, and we'll get to that here in a few minutes. Before we get started, I would like to introduce you to our listening and viewing audience. Royce is an Assistant Professor in the Interpreter Education Program, and where she is also the Coordinator. And she is a Diversity and Equality and Inclusion Faculty Fellow at Columbus State Community College, she has interpreted a vast array of settings for over 22 years, which is hard to believe because Royce was one of my students. And I'm sure that only happened like two years ago, but 22 years Royce?
Royce:Well, we will let you think that
Tina:She has been teaching for 15 years. And that's, that's awesome, because I know those students benefit greatly from having Royce. In addition, she does training and workshops on cross cultural mentoring, diversity, equity and inclusion and leadership, cultural competency for higher education institutions, and for nonprofit and nonprofit and profit organizations. That was a lot to say. So she works very closely with students, colleagues and leaders, all in different communities. I will say that Royce as well as working with other groups, she also works with persons on finding out about who they are as well. And I think that you find that to be very important about knowing who we are, so that we know how we can deal with others as well. Would you agree with that?
Royce:Oh, absolutely, absolutely do, it will make or break, sometimes our interactions and our interpreting
Tina:Exactly. And, you know, if I got to know who I am before, I can expect to know who others are as well. So I think that's so important. You know, Royce holds RID certification. And she has also an Associates of Arts degree in Interpreting and Translating from Columbus State, a Bachelor of Science degree in Organizational Management from Wilberforce University, which is my alma mater, a Masters of Art degree in Teaching Interpreting Studies from Western Oregon University (phew), and a Higher Education Specialist degree from National Louis University. Now, look Royce. That's not it. That's not the end of that. Tell us where you are now, as far as your education.
Royce:Well, soon to be Dr. Carpenter.
Tina:Wait a minute (cheers from the crowd). Thank you, audience. We appreciate that. What's happening Friday?
Royce:Friday is my I defend my dissertation. And that is the final step. Well, Friday, which I know the good Lord will allow that to go well. I will be Dr. Carpenter. On Good Friday by this Friday.
Tina:Wow! We met one more time.(cheers from the crowd) That deserves. (Royce) "Thank you". Yes, yes, I'm sure you are bowing. Right now, as we all clap for you, Royce. That's awesome. And I know how hard you have worked. All of those accomplishments take a lot of time and dedication. And while you still work full time, and interpret, and be a wife and a mother and a this, and a that. And you and you have done all of those. And I and I hear you say that only because you've been blessed. And I have to agree with that. (Royce) "Absolutely". So Royce, thank you for coming today. I know you have a lot of insights for us. I'm glad you're giving us a little bit of your time. We so appreciate that. And I want you to tell me Well, how did you get started in the field of interpreting?
Royce:So it's, you know, I did kind of a roundabout way Yeah, I I realized now looking back that our life connects in so many ways. I'm from Philadelphia and my grandmother worked for the Philadelphia School for the Deaf. She's passed away now, but I still am appreciate, uh, growing up, back then I'm in my 50s. I won't say exactly what. But back then, when my grandmother worked there, deaf children didn't necessarily go home on the weekends or the, or the summer breaks. Their parents couldn't get them for whatever reason. And so my grandmother would just was loving and she would bring them home sometime, you know, and I would play with kids, but I didn't really get to know sign language. I knew the alphabet. But kids play is universal, right? So you fast forward to my adult life. I was here in Ohio, and one of my good friends son was born hearing. And then when he was about nine months old, he had a high fever. I mean, it was like 105, 106, something like extremely high. And of course, it burnt out his cochlea. And he became deaf. And his mother just was like, I don't what do I do with a deaf child? I don't know anybody deaf, I don't know sign language. And that said, you can learn, you know, trying to be supportive. I knew there was some sign language classes at Columbus State. So I encouraged her to take a class. And because if she was so stressed, I didn't want her to feel alone. So I said, I'll take one class with you mind, you had a full time job working for OSU hospital. But I was like, I'll just take one class with you. And I took that class, and I just fell in love. I just love the language and the culture. And here we are today.
Tina:Wow, that's a great, that's a great story. And I mean, that's just how you are like to be able to give your time to somebody else to encourage them to take that class when you were so busy yourself. But you know, what, there must have been a, there must have been a reason for that. (Royce) "Right." So you know, Royce, you and I both have taught together for many years. And you know, we have seen students come and go and, you know, we understand students come in, and sometimes they bring with them some baggage, and sometimes, you know, they just are dealing with life. And, and we don't really get to know that about a student until they get in there. And we we kind of get to know them. But can you tell me now what kind of issues are pressing with students? Even maybe just interpreters in general? What are you seeing like students are dealing with this? In this day and age?
Royce:I think if I you know, there's, like you said a myriad of things that they are dealing with. But I think one major thing is self esteem. Where some comes from anxiety or other things, but they a lot of people are struggling with how others perceive them. And then that makes them freeze up, right? Because they they're not thinking about the interpreting process alone. They have all this other baggage in their minds about what somebody may be thinking or somebody thinks I'm bad all these, that negative negativity, because they're not totally confident in who they are. And so I don't think that is only students. I think sometimes interpreters out there, especially if you've been interpreting alone, you know, a lot of times we may not get an opportunity to team and get feedback. And and so sometimes people get that self esteem issue related to their work. I think that's the biggest issue. We can tell a student right, listen, here's this skill, you can do that skill and can do this skill, or you're doing well on this or this needs work. But how they take it, and how they the baggage that they come with as far as self esteem issues in this generation. I mean, my generation wasn't on social media all the time, right? We weren't being we all had some type of judgment growing up, but it wasn't constant in your face. And, and so I really think that has impacted our students. And so that's another layer that they have to deal with it I probably did not have to deal with. When I was all those couple of decades ago, when I was in the interpreting program.
Tina:That's a great point. Again, we're in a field where we are always being judged, you know, and I know people don't like to hear that. But that's the way it is. We are in a field where we are deaf consumers look at us and make decisions about us or the hearing consumers we deal with, on what how the things we say there's always this judgement. I don't like that word, but I guess maybe a better word would be we're always being assessed. Yes. And I think you know, it's just really challenging for us because we have to kind of act like you know, you and I have always taught that whole Swan theory. You want to you want to talk about that a little bit?
Royce:Yeah, you know, not just a swan, there's some other beautiful water fowl that do the same thing. But that Swan theory is the swan, you look at them, and they, they're so beautiful, they look so calm and serene, but under the water, their little feet are just going there doing that work, right. And that's us, as interpreters outside, we have to look like it's not bothering us anything that comes up with those consumers, we can handle. And of course, we know that might be against my religious beliefs or, or, or my moral values or whatever. But that's, it's not my conversation, it's theirs. So I need to do that. And I have to be in my mind, working through that interpreting process without it coming out and in letting the consumers know that I might have some personal struggle with that. So we have to be like that Swan outwardly doing our job, in not letting the people outside of our head, know what's going on in our head and the process that we need to take to get to that communication facilitation
Tina:That is exactly right. And I've even said this is really a an acting job. We're always acting like we are somebody else
Royce:And I don't even necessarily, I think they say always, yeah. And I, and I love acting, and I love being the center of attention. So that's why this is a perfect career. And I think some people aren't comfortable with that, you know, I've heard students even say, you know, what, get almost to the end and say, I just don't like being watched. And I'm like, well, that's gonna be a problem. That's gonna be a problem. the word watched. But I think it goes back to what you said that judgment, that assessment, I think it's that part. I think they they know, interpreters, or watch they see them. That's how I was interested. But I think it's that they feel that assessment, sometimes assessing me or judging me. And that's the part that sometimes makes or break someone.
Tina:Well, we don't help that as educators, because the only way we can assess them is to watch them and grade them. I know and I know that just oh, that can be overwhelming.
Royce:Absolutely it. And that's why it's so important for people to understand who they are as individuals understand, I am a Christian, somebody else might not have the same beliefs. And that part is okay. So but I believe that God made you whoever you are, he made me Royce. I can't interpret like Tina, I can't interpret like Sarah, I can't interpret like anybody else. Now I can see techniques and someone else say, oh, that technique, I'd like to use that. Add that to my repertoire. But I can't interpret like somebody else. But I know that God made me Royce. And so I can just be me. And if I do my best, as in, in my, you know, what, what I am and who I am, then I'll be okay. But I think sometimes that and I'm gonna say young people, but it's not always young, because we blame young people's all the young people. It's not always the young people. But because when I was younger eighteen, nineteen, twenty, I probably had the same issues. Sometimes when you're younger, and you're not, you know, quite sure and who you are yet. And so when you're still trying to figure that out, and then we as educators are adding saying, okay, so So that part wasn't quite right. They have a hard time separating us talking about the skill, right, and not the person, right. And I think that's something that we continuously try to figure out. But we don't have a lot of time with them. And, and so I try to make sure in my classes, I remind them, okay, so we're talking about the skill, and make sure and I try to have students do positive self affirmation, if you're home and put something on your mirror, I'm wonderful. I'm great. I am I am smart, I'm telling you something to make sure that they're building up their internal self their self esteem, because then those negative things about them as a person won't bleed into that mental processing they really need for interpreting,
Tina:Right. That is a great point, I think. I mean, and there are times where I'm sure this is for you and I where people are like, wow, you know, that you did a great job. What they didn't know is how nervous I was going. And even after doing this for 40 years, I'm still nervous. There are times I'm still nervous. And they're like, really? And I said, well, first of all, if you always go into an assignment, without nerves, you know, not every time but you know when it's appropriate to have good nerves. I think it keeps you sharp. Yes. Because otherwise you'd become too cocky.
Royce:Yeah, but I think too. They think we don't make mistakes. I've tried to share with my students mistakes I've made and I also invite my students where I interpret differently if it's someplace that's open to the public, right that they can come to. And then I, I welcome their assessment, I welcome their feedback or their critique or whatever they want to call it. So they can understand that this is a human profession, and no one else is no one is going to always be perfect, right? You want to work to try to do the best possible interpretation you can for the people you're interpreting for. Because, first of all, they deserve that your best, (Tina)"right." So that's a given, but also that you are human. So if you see that you make a mistake, you know, sometimes we can feel like, Oh, that wasn't right, then correct it, just try to correct it. Or if you didn't understand something, ask ask for clarification. Those things don't make you bad, or I'm a bad because that clarification means you're doing your job. So those types of things. I think, when people think differently about them, and again, I think that goes back to how they feel about themselves. Right? When I ask somebody for clarification, maybe somebody has, well, I want to do the best I can for that they have the right to feel that they I don't know what trauma, somebody's gone through that day or all that. And I'm not taking it personal because I know I am doing the best that I can do. So let's say though, people need to make sure they're keeping up with their craft. Right. So that's a whole different topic. Tina, we can do a podcast another day on that.
Tina:Exactly. Exactly. And I think you know, your skills have to always continually be improved new vocabulary, new words. I mean, look at all of the things that have happened in the, in our world, since you and I have both been interpreting that have made us learn new countries, new vocabulary, new ideas, all of that, which then means new signs. (Royce)"Right." So (Royce) "right." so Royce, you kind of you've really talked a lot about root causes. But do you have something like, you know, what, I think this is the root cause of maybe low self esteem? Is there something that you're seeing that maybe you see a common cause amongst the students?
Royce:Well, so this is, this is a Roycism, meaning this is my own idea of what it might be in this, this generation this, that's coming through now is, this is this is a generation that has had to grow up with all these standardized tests, right? You can't get out of kindergarten without a test, and third grade, and fourth grade, all these continuously in in their big stakes, right? If you don't pass even if you've done great through all the third grade, if you don't pass those tests, you get held back. And this is my personal thought that I mean, I, I don't like them, just because I've, I feel that they have really increased anxiety in young people. Right, you're either good, you're smart, or you're not right, you pass the third grade test, or you don't. And that's just not the case, one test for one day or a couple of days, however, that goes, I just think that has seen it as an educator from them coming through that K through 12 system. I've never seen as much anxiety, test anxiety, as I've seen in these last few years. And the only thing that I can think to attribute it to is that this generation has grown up with test test test. If you don't, you don't pass a whole grade. That's just huge to me. Right. So unfortunately, that's, again, my professional guess, as an educator of all these years.
Tina:And you know what, I guess I never even thought about it like that. But you're right. It's just a constant, you know, all the things that you have learned doesn't really come out in one test, you know, right. And so that that's really challenging, because I remember when I was in school, the biggest thing was my multiplication tables, you know, I remember that sheet, and I would get down to the half of it. And you know, what I also hated was when you're done, stand up, you know, on the side of the room, and I would still be sitting there and my classmates would all be done. And it was like total humiliation. And I've, you know, but you're right, this whole testing thing. So doesn't sound like it's something that students or can really improve on. Sounds like to me, we need the education system to make some changes, because you are absolutely right. I don't think I have ever seen so much anxiety, as I have within the I would say the last 10 years.
Royce:Yes, in the last last five has worsened is really Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Tina:What do you suggest for our students or your students that are dealing with this anxiety? It like, what are there any techniques that you think might help to alleviate it?
Royce:Well, I always first and foremost, our college, right here every every college is different. But our college every semester, our students get six, free sessions with counselors and I say go sign up, it's free, go talk to somebody. Right. So I never think you should push that to the side, if it's an opportunity. And it's free, because some students may not have health insurance to do it outside of education. So do it there. Then I also add those affirmations that I talked about before, I always tell students, hey, talk positive about yourself, you keep telling it to yourself, you will believe it. Because as you keep telling yourself negative things, you're believing that right? So let's just try the opposite. And I try to talk about that all the way during every semester, talk about Okay, make sure we're, we're using positive language. And that doesn't mean you can't assess yourself, right. But you're assessing the skill and not the person. Those are the things I try to remind them you're assessing your skill, not you as a person, or are not capable or not smart. No, you your did you make a complete thought in that interpretation? Let's talk about those type of things, the skills itself. So I think it's how we talk about them, but also how students take them. Sometimes you can say that, but because they have so much negative talk in their head, they hear it as something else. So sometimes you have to go back and say, Okay, tell me what you heard. Tell me what you heard. So using those techniques, more and more in, in classes than I've ever used before, but that's okay, I have to figure it out. I'm trying to help my students as best I possibly can, while I can, while I have them right before they get out in the real world of interpreting and, and they don't have those aids that they might have at the college.
Tina:Exactly. And to be able to use those in their their field of interpreting. So what is your best advice Royce to somebody who's either just about to graduate or somebody who has already graduated? Let's just say they've been in the field for a couple of years. But, what kind of advice would you give to somebody to work on their self esteem?
Royce:Well, first, I would say that they need to. So this is for those who are believers, I would say pray, read your Bible and try to get that that positive, self doubt out. But for everyone else, I would say get them, try to find a mentor in the field, someone that's positive, right? Someone that can help you continue that to grow in your skills, which will also help yourself the same as you can, can you feel better about what you're doing? It'll help you feel better about who you are for those who are struggling with that. And I say, out of your mouth, brings life or death. So keep talking positive about yourself and fight those negative tendencies to talk negative about who you are as a person, because it's just, it doesn't it's not fruitful in any way. Right? Those negative self talk, there's nothing positive that can come out of that. But there is something positive that can come out of saying, Yes, I can do something. I have to work at it. Yeah. I mean, I didn't come through those educational experiences, because I didn't have to work I had to work. I had to stay up all night sometimes and you had to do the work. But that didn't mean I because I had to stay up all night. That wasn't smart. No, I just had to do the things I needed to do to learn whatever I needed to learn. And so hard work, consistent work, consistent, going out and trying to get around the community will help that work inwardly. So whatever that is for you, if that's praying, if that's meditation, if that is talking to a counselor, whatever you need to do, to help you know that you are smart and capable. I think that's what you do. One last thing. I tell my students all the time, you need to take stock in who you're around. Because if the people around you are negative, or they're, they're always talking negative to you, or about you or even about themselves, that negativity is a breeding ground for more negativity. And sometimes you have to change your your environment, change your circle.
Tina:You know, I know that that kind of was winding that up. I want to take us back to your practicum and you were in like, your practicum was like Royce, we're going to Royce, you don't know how to swim, but we're going to throw you in the 30 foot water. Because you did your practicum with my family. Did that help you? Or did that just make? Well, obviously, I think it helped you. But can you tell me a little bit about your experience with that?
Royce:Yes. Well, I think so your your, your, your mom, your aunt, your dad was the softy. So that that was helpful to have one person in there that was like, to be honest. But your I personally, so everybody's different. I like direct communication. So everybody has different value systems. One of my value systems is direct communication. So when your mom would say, Nope, that's wrong, or tell me what I say it again, or, or your aunt would do that for me. I liked it. Because I knew exactly where I needed help. I knew exactly where I needed to do that extra practice on my own with as far as voicing or signing. So for direct communication, for me was a positive it was it was the deep end for really because none of them held any punches. Again, besides your dad, he tried to help you in a different way. But they did not hold any punches. They were like, nope, stop signing. That's my right, or whatever. But thankfully, again, and maybe because I went back as an older student, you know, I wasn't in my early 20s. I was 30, 32. You know, so maybe that helps, because I knew who I was, and I didn't take your mom or your answer any of your family, when they corrected me, as they were saying I was a bad person. I took it as they they want to make sure that that skill was right, because it was their life. Right. It's their doctor's appointment is their it's not mine. It's their whatever it was their business meeting is it's not mine, how dare I be upset when they're trying to make sure that their life is is communicated correctly. So I think I kept that in mind that it was not about me, it was about somebody else's life. If I had to go to another country where I didn't speak the language, I would want that interpreter to make sure that they were saying the right things, the things that I wanted them to say. And that's what I took, I took it as them making sure that you are the best you can for their livelihood, you know, so yeah, I cherish that experience, because it was so direct, it made me be on my toes, look at it, I knew I was gonna be interpreted for one of them. I made sure I was practicing. Before, if I had the topic, if I knew they go to a doctor's appointment or something, I would make sure I looked that up. Because, hey, I knew what was gonna happen if I
Tina:And you're you're absolutely right. The d/Deaf did. community, community can be very direct. And sometimes it feels harsh, and sometimes it feels negative. And sometimes you know what, it is? Sometimes it is harsh. Sometimes it is negative. But I think you're I think the ability for us as interpreters to take that feedback, however it may feel and really assess it.
Royce:You had to access there were some times it is wrong. Like as a black woman in the interpreting field. I've had deaf people be discriminatory against me and racist towards me, and that there was still something in it to learn for me. So I took the meat and throw away the bone. As my grandmother said, I had to figure out how to, to take what I could now there were a few times not many in 20, some years, but there were some times when I had to be self protect and take myself and say, You know what, I'm not the right interpreter for this. I'm going to I'm leaving. Right, very few. But that you have to know that too. But still, even in those cases that were horrifying. I didn't take that as that was that person was, I don't care if you're hearing, deaf, right, everybody can be a jerk. So I didn't take that. To me, I attribute it to where it should have been attributed to to that person's right.
Tina:And I think does a great tool and something as we as interpreters, and I don't care where you are in this field and how long you've been doing it. What you do with that information. And sometimes that information that you get just has to be like, that was not appropriate. (Royce) "Right?" But then there are times where it is it just the delivery, you know, so the delivery, the delivery, and you know, it's not always the noun but the verb. What are you gonna do with that verb and the actions that are said and so and you and I both love what we do. And we have had so much fun working together as a team, as teachers, as interpreters, and as best friends, and I cannot thank you enough for coming here, or I wish you were here. But you're giving me your time tonight. And I wish you nothing but the best for Friday. What time?
Royce:Say a prayer for me, 11 am Eastern Standard Time.
Tina:How long does something like that take?
Royce:Well, I guess it depends. So you have to present for about a half hour. And then there's a committee of people that will question you. So that question it can take I've heard it take as little as 30 minutes up to 45 to an hour. So I won't know until I get in there Friday.
Tina:Okay, okay, well, you know what you're gonna do great. You haven't come this far for that to be your like that one one half hour of your life after that. Like we've already said, one test doesn't determine your whole career. So absolutely. And so you've been working so hard. I congratulate you on that. And I'll call you Dr. Carpente once I told you "once", but then we go back to (Royce) "for a minimum of six months. (Tina) " I'm going to try but you know what, you're always Royce to me. So Right. But listen, I appreciate
Royce:It could be Dr. Royce.
Tina:It could be, but it could be. No, we'll do whatever it takes. But again, congratulations, and thank you so much for all your wisdom and great, great help. And to our listening audience, to my listening audience. I cannot thank you enough for listening to this. I hope that you share this information. Because it's just so important to us as interpreters, especially you who are just starting in the field. There's so much more for you to learn. You've been through so much, I'm sure already. There's so much more out there. I'd suggest you mentor, get with other interpreters and throw yourself into that deaf community I that's the one thing, all of my interviews, the one thing everybody says is get into the deaf community. Let them know who you are. Let them see your face and let them know how serious you are and how you want to do a great job. Royce. Thank you so much and I appreciate your time.
Royce:Thanks for having me.
Tina:Absolutely. And we wish you the best for Friday. Thank you
Royce:Thank you.