Hello and welcome to Tina's Corner podcast. We are a group of like minded sign language interpreters set out to improve the field of sign language interpreting. We have deaf consumers, hearing consumers, and both hearing and deaf interpreters, which complete this triad. And the focus of this podcast is to strengthen that triad. All persons listening, regardless of years of experience, will more than likely benefit from this podcast and our wonderful speakers. I am Tina Perry, and I welcome you. Now today I have invited Kathy Morgan Prince to share her insights and experiences so that others can see that interpreters travel different roads, so only to arrive at the same destination, equality of information for consumers. So I want you to help me welcome the speaker. Welcome, Kathy.
Kathy:Thank you. Hi, Tina.
Tina:Hi, I'm so glad that you are able to join us today. And I just want to give you all a little history of Kathy's professional life here. Kathy is an RID certified interpreter and has been interpreting professionally ,now hold on, for over 42 years. It's kind of rough Kathy, when you're only 43. (laughter, inaudible) But at any rate she has been professionally interpreting for over 42 years. And of those 42 years 17 of them is working with Sorenson Video Relay as a video relay interpreter. And that is exciting. Now I know Kathy says, Well, I don't have many accomplishments. Well, first of all, let me just say this, working as an interpreter for 42 years is an accomplishment. And working at one place for 17 years is even a bigger accomplishment. So Kathy, I think that's awesome. And I think you know, any company that has anybody stay with them for that long is certainly a blessed company. Wouldn't you agree?
Kathy:Yep. And they have me at least for another four years. The I get the retire
Tina:Talking about retirement? I hear you girl. I hear you. Now, you know, I retired from teaching, but I still work as a video relay interpreter as well. I you know, I mean, I'm just thankful that we have that opportunity to even do that. It's just awesome.
Kathy:Especially working from home. Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly.
Tina:Isn't it great, I mean, we can absolutely go and walk into our room and walk out, do the dishes, eat lunch, do some laundry, go back in and work? Boy, that's been a blessing. You and I both are doing that. And I think we both agree. Kathy, I want you to tell me a little bit about your family dynamics.
Kathy:Well, my parents were deaf. My dad was one of, I believe six siblings, I'd have to count them all over again. He was the youngest. He was born deaf. Due to his mother having German measles. My mother was the only deaf in her family but she became deaf at five years of age. Now my dad went to the School for the Deaf Ohio School for the Deaf. And mom went to , West Virginia, easier said than done. West Virginia School but she lip reads she did the oralism school. But that's as far as my parents go I have a sister she is an RN retired. She never really got into interpreting now she does sign beautifully. She's older than me ha ha by nine years.
Tina:I am sure she appreciates that plug. (laughter)
Kathy:Well, and the thing is, is I always call myself the oopsy baby mom always said I was the cure for the headache. So I don't know so much about the headache. I may have caused headaches because as she was going through the change, I was going through teenage years and we bumped heads quite a bit is
Tina:Your sign name like "K" with like headache for aspirin
Kathy:It should be it should be. But it's more like the k out waving like No, no, no.(inaudible) Your finger(laughter) but that's what I always thought.
Tina:I know you hate labels, Kathy. And I'm not trying to shove this one down your throat by any means. But Kathy, you are CODA and we are doing our Coda series. And so Kathy has so kindly joined us to let us know what it was like growing up a CODA. Now I'm going to tell you now Kathy does not have the typical CODA story. She's very unique. Well, we know that, but her story is very unique. And I'm so appreciative that you are going to share it with us. Now you said you have an older sister and yourself and your order and you are the younger of the two. That's it. There's just two of you. Correct?
Kathy:Correct.
Tina:Okay, so tell me about your interpreting for your mom and dad.
Kathy:Well, that's where we, as you and I had talked about is I never had to I never interpreted for my my mom and dad, you know, as well, I don't mind telling my age. By the way, my birthday is this coming Tuesday the 11th.
Tina:You are older than me.
Kathy:I will. That's right. I'm 63 years old will be 63 years old. So back in the era of my parents time while I was a child, there was no interpreters. And so Mom and Dad always just wrote notes, they wrote notes to the doctors, they wrote notes to when we go to the stores, they would go to the neighbors to write a note and ask the neighbor to make a phone call because we never had phones growing up. Now granted, my sister's nine years older than I and she never had to interpret either. I think my parents were probably one of the rarities, they never realized that, oh, gee, yay. You know, our parents in our kids are deaf, or shoot, I'm sorry, hearing, or children are hearing that we can use them as our ears. They never, they never did that. And, you know, I think of all the things I can ever remember growing up, because we just had the good old fashioned black and white television. Used the good old rabbit ears. Is there any breaking news that we've come across but dad never asked me What did they say? That's usually the typical of Deaf parents say what do they what they say what they say? But my parents never did that. Except for one time when there was a breaking news Dad said, What did they say? And I said something about rocket explodes. And all he said was okay, read newspaper tomorrow. Intro. So really growing up, I never had to interpret. Now I didn't really interpret, but I was their ally. My dad became very ill and he needed to apply for Social Security disability at the time. And they kept denying him, and me being me, is basically I fought for him. I didn't interpret I did, basically told Social Security that they were stupid that Dad, you know, not only being deaf, but also being a diabetic and was passing out, that his health was really poor, that he of all people should deserve to get that Social Security as well, which he did finally get, but I never sat there and signed, I just did all the talking, I was just their advocate.
Tina:Kathy how old were you then?
Kathy:When I was 18 18 years old years old. Now I had an opportunity because when dad got sick, he had to move back to Lucasville to free housing. And they gave me the opportunity because it was my senior year that I could say back and stay with some friends of mine, which I did take that. But then I started feeling guilty, because I just felt like I should be with my parents. And so my senior year, I did move down to Lucasville, Ohio and finish my schooling down there. But dad's health still was poor, and, you know, finding the right doctors for him going to the Social Security office, fighting for him to be able to get some kind of income, which, fortunately, he did end up getting. But I never really said and signed, what they were saying I just, I was just their advocate. You know,
Tina:They wrote notes, you you were there.
Kathy:At first, you know, and those people basically whoever they were trying to basically just sweep them under the rug, then I would rear my head and throw a tizzy fit.
Tina:So some characteristics of being a because you are a CODA, regardless of whether you interpreted or not, that does not discredit that for you. So you still had the characteristics of a child with parents well back in where they considered them to be disabled. You still have the characteristics actually kind of even taken the role of a of a parent, would you say?
Kathy:I don't feel as a parent, but as an advocate, as an advocate, you know, just because that was, you know, Mom and Dad were deaf, they were still able, just because you think that they're not understanding so you can just basically tell them, No, I would fight for them. Find out why, you know, what is the reason and then I would then find what the answer should be, so that they could get the social security by going to the appropriate doctors and so forth. As far as, you know, I when you say that the one thing that comes to mind, I remember my dad used to be in charge of the deaf club. And he would write, to different companies to ask for a fundraiser for their program books for their bowling tournaments and so forth. And one thing dad would ask me is, would you look at this and see if I have it written correctly, because as you know, with American Sign Language, English is not their first language. And so oftentimes, words might be flipped flopped around and so forth. That would be about the only thing was correcting this. The correct language, on paper, would be the only thing that I would do. But other than that, that was it.
Tina:What did communication look like for you, between you and your parents?
Kathy:Oh, we signed we always signed that was that was, that was just the given. Whenever we'd go to family reunions, as I said that my dad's family, they were all hearing, he would just pull out his paper and pencil and write to his family members. And they would either nod, pat him on the shoulder and walk away, and that would irritate the tar out of me, but they loved him. They loved him regardless. But but that I guess I never knew no difference. I didn't know what other, well, I guess, children of deaf adults experienced, you know, what were their households the same as my household? I never thought about it, I guess you could say, I always call it in Kathy's world, I kind of just stay put and just like it is what it is and go with the flow. But I didn't really start interpreting until I moved to Columbus, when my son was two years old. And even then, it was like, Yes, I know how to sign. And that was just a fluke, because I should backtrack. When I lived in Lucasville. I was asked to interpret why shouldn't say that assist with some deaf students that were going to the vocational school. And I'm like, okay, so I went there, but I was more of their teacher aide, I took notes, we'd sit down, and I would explain, I was more almost like a, I guess, an assistant teacher. And they all graduated. And they they stayed with their voc classes that they took one was drafting, auto body, printing and so forth. But, but that was here and there. But I was a single parent too at the time. And one of our fellow CODAs basically had said, you know, you know, sign language, you should move to Columbus that make a lot more money as an interpreter and that word interpreter and I'm like, what is an interpreter? I had never heard that word interpreter. Now, I will tell you the year since we are so young, that was my 1979 1980. Okay. And so I took the leap of faith and moved to Columbus, and at the time was the Columbus Tech Institute CTI, which is now Columbus State Community College. And so that's where I went, and did my first attempt and I, I will say that again, attempt to interpret, yes, I pass the screening. They were all excited how well I could understand this deaf person's hands that was going 100 miles an hour. And then I went to set the front of the classroom. And I was supposed to interpret, and I just sat there, and I was dumbfounded. You want me to put that through my ears, and then out my hands. I have no clue how to do that. Well, so I went back. And I don't you know, I don't know if we're supposed to name names, but at the time was Carole Francis. And told her I'm unable to do this. And she's like, yes, you can. I said, No, I can't. And I don't know if we're allowed to use names. So if we need to scratch that, that's fine. But Janet Dobecki, she did the screening for me. And she went back and said No, she can't. (laughter)
Tina:I like your attitude. I love your attitude.
Kathy:So Carole Francis was disheartened but she says you know, myself and Michael Repas is getting ready to establish the Community Center for the Deaf here in Columbus, and we need a secretary. Well, lo and behold, when I moved to Lucasville, and went to the vocational skills school there, I took cooperative office education, which was secretarial. So I had that ability. So I was their secretary, when they first opened up. And I forced myself to learn how to interpret, take it through the ears, process it and put it out the hand. And within a year, I became nationally certified. (Tina) Wow, (Kathy) with the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf. So I self taught myself to be an interpreter, and the rest is history.
Tina:We're gonna we're gonna go back and get a little bit more of a history. I want to go way back to you as a child having deaf parents. Can you tell me how did that, if it did, impact you in school? And you know, elementary school, middle school? Was there any impact with having deaf parents for you?
Kathy:Um pronouncing words and I still to this day have difficulty pronouncing some words. Often times, they would say all the poor child with deaf mute parents are deaf, dumb parents, but that then, you know, we didn't know any difference. You know, that's yeah, that's a sore spot now. But back then, I really don't think they meant it as being mean, they're just thinking that these people can't talk, you know, but not meaning that they were illiterate. Right. And, you know, but I feel that to be honest, I probably got away with a lot of things. Because they would be, oh, well, her parents are dea. I know growing up, like a neighbor told me that my my mom was pretending that she was deaf. Oh, this happened mom had mom had eyes in the back of her head. She gets. So somebody was talking about or he would throw around at the time that they would be saying something. Believe me mom was profoundly deaf. And I got an argument with this neighbor, you know, and it's like, No, she can't hear. But but there were just some people that were just stupid. Well, as we both know, deaf people's voices do sound unique. Unusual. Well, mom had a high pitched voice. And we were we lived at we had like a hill. And kids always like to fly down the hill. Well, mom would get so mad because it would tear up the grass. Well, mom would come running out and she'd start yelling get off the hill, and they would go The Chicken Lady(laughter)
Tina:Oh my gosh.
Kathy:(laugher) You know, mom didn't know that. That's what they were called. But you know, it was kind of upset me, you know, it's like,call my mom chicken lady you know, but what would be funny is back then we didn't have cell phones. Right. You know, I mean,
Tina:did you have a house phone?
Kathy:No, we never had a house. So, when we, when the kids were outside, parents would yell for their kids to come home. While mom would whistle, but I don't know if you remember the bic ink pens, you know, the caps that go into bit stick in, her whistle sounded like somebody blowing in that cap! That high pitch sound when she would whistle. And the kids would say your mom's calling you.
Tina:isn't that funny?
Kathy:Because they recognize Kathy's mom's so they all would go home too. But Mom was the siren I guess for the neighborhood.
Tina:Kathy did you have any grandparents that were involved?
Kathy:No, no, my my grandparents on dad's side passed away before I was born. Mom's parents were still alive but they lived in West Virginia and we lived in Mansfield, Ohio. So we did go to visit but I I was not comfortable around my grandmother. She was kind of crude. My sister and I would sit on the front porch while mom visited with her. We just were not we were scared to death of her because she figured a lot of times deaf folks that have hearing parents they do you know they don't know sign language they have their own ability of communicating whether it was gesturing, lip reading, or whatever needed to be done but but my sister and I we just said on the front porch.
Tina:Wow, that's interesting. Boy your story is very interesting Kathy So, now you've become you said you're kind of a self taught interpret and then to get certified on your own like that was is remarkable. What an achievement. I mean, that was remarkable in itself. So, tell me, you said you started out in post secondary, but that didn't quite work out for you. And then you went, where did you go?
Kathy:Became a community? Yeah, Community Center for the Deaf. I was community interpreter. Yeah. For Community Center for the Deaf. I was the community interpreter for many years, I left and then I went and worked for the state of Ohio Office of Budget Management. And I had some deaf friends there that I really did realize that I missed being out the interpreting world. And that's when I came back to work for now Deaf Services Center, but they were housed in Grandview, Ohio, or on Granville Grandview Avenue, sorry about that. And that's when at that time, all these younger interpreters, they would be talking about different things that they have you learned from college, if I didn't go to college, because basically high school and then got into the interpreting world. And they kept talking about all the things that they learned. And every time I would ask them, What are you talking about? They would keep saying, Well, you're a CODA. And I kept thinking, what in the world is A CODA? So here, I'm thinking, because again, my hearing sometimes is not the greatest. So they're calling me the Central Ohio Diabetic Association. Or they call me the central Ohio Transit Authority. You see OTA or CRTA. And I like what are you talking about? You already know that stuff. You're a CODA and irritated that tar out of me. And maybe because I did not know, right? Yes, I know how I have my receptive and I have my performance. I can I can sign I can read sign. Yeah I don't doubt that about myself. But that's when at that time they had practicum students. And when they moved from Grandview to High street, they were able to get credit for all the practicum students that they had. Well, granted, all the other interpreters were already graduates of Columbus State, I was able to go to Columbus State in 1996. Almost let's see, Well, yeah, almost 20 years later, from when I graduate, I graduated 77. So 19 years later, I went to Columbus State to learn about what is interpreting. (Tina) Never too late! (Kathy), kind of do everything backwards is what I do.
Tina:And that's typical. I mean, and that is a typical story that we are hearing is that, you know, I just started out because I was asked to come in interpret before you knew it, it worked. And then those soft skills, the professional side of it was are areas where we may lack in the other part of that is you you hit the nail right on the head. We and not all CODAs, some CODAS and I'm going to include myself is when we got out and worked with trained interpreters. You're right, they would start talking that stuff and and be like, Yeah, I'm not even sure what you're talking about. But this is or if they would say, Why did you do that? And they wanted you to give them like, how does that fit into this interpreting model? And this is like, I don't know, I only did it because it felt right. And that doesn't work when we're trying to work as a team.
Kathy:My gut instinct
Tina:they don't have that gut instinct. They're trying to get it. And so they want us to put our gut instinct into words. And it's like, and it never worked to just say it just felt right. Or that didn't feel right, or that's not teachable things. Those are just ingrained things. But they're not teachable, which made it harder. So I think, and not, I think, but I know, education has has enabled us as both CODAs and non CODAs to speak the same language. And as a team, it's remarkable, and to be able to talk to each other and help each other. And when I say help each other. I'm talking about me as a CODAs as well. I get into assignments. Well, I have learned so much from other interpreters. I have learned so much from my students even and I've told them like, I would have never thought to do it like that. But boy that worked. I'm going to start doing that. So I don't I think that that in which is going to bring me to the next question is, I think that whole idea of working with a CODA, you know, oh my gosh, they know how to do everything and blah, blah. No, that's not the case. I think the case is the attitude of the CODA. So let me ...
Kathy:That's the key message a huge key. And I think oftentimes when I meet interpreters, I never tell them that I'm a CODA. I don't say, Well, I'm a CODA. I never do that.
Tina:Right? And it's, stigma.
Kathy:It is. And then as they get to know me, and then find out how I became, they'll say, oh, you're a CODA, I would have never known because of your attitude. Yeah, you don't (Tina) That's sad, isn't it (Kathy) like a CODA? It's sad, it is really sad. Because, sadly, there is some that walk around with the attitude of my "do do" don't stink you know, and you will bow down to me, because, you know, I am better than thee. And I don't know how many times when I have done assessments when I worked for Deaf Services Center, to CODAs that come in and tried to pull that on me. And because I never, like I said, tell them that one CODA until they kept going, Well, my parents are deaf. And then finally, I would just look at them. And I'll say, Well, you know what, my parents were too. So you'd still need to go back to school and learn learn the fundamentals of interpreting? Yes, you understand words but you don't understand, interpreting, you need to go back and learn the fundamental. And several of them took that for a grain and actually did go back and are beautiful interpreters.
Tina:Exactly. I'm so glad to hear you say that. Because education is key education. We don't know what we don't know. I mean, and that's the thing about working. And it's so nice to be able to to be in a classroom, and to share and I would always share with my classes, just because we have a CODA in the room, do not put that pressure on them, by putting them on this pedestal, that you you're not allowing them to learn. And I think that's very important.
Kathy:Exactly. Because that that's just it. It was just, I don't know about you, but it would be. That's why!!!
Tina:exactly.
Kathy:Oh, you know, you have to be open minded. And I remember some of my instructors, when they found out that my parents were day cringed. They're like, Oh, God, I gotta teach a CODA. And at the end of the quarter, they were just like, oh my gosh, you just totally changed my view of CODA. Because I I told them, I said, I'm here to learn, right? I'm, I'm not here to criticize, or anything like that. I want to know why, why I do what I do.
Tina:Exactly. Yes. And how we can work with other interpreters. Which brings me to my next question. I think I've heard a lot of good advice from you already. But is there one thing that if we had a new graduate, or somebody who's just about to graduate, or somebody who's even been in the field for a couple of years, what's your best advice to them on on the field of interpreting.
Kathy:Just be real, be real. Open your heart, open your mind, be willing to learn whether it's from the deaf person, because we also know that a lot of Deaf people signing may be different than what you learn in school, be open minded, don't use the attitude of well, that's not what they taught me. Be flexible, understand that. Interpreting is not it's, it's either black, or it's white, or it's gray. It is how you make the rainbow color is how you as your personality, your skill level, if your if your skill level is mediocre, but you've got a great attitude, your skill level is going to skyrocket. Because the deaf person and your team interpreter will see your willingness and your abilities and help you shine through.
Tina:That's great advice. And I think, you know, for those who are new and never have worked with an with a CODA before, remember, they're probably just as nervous as you are, you know, and I think we have to try to keep the stoic attitude like, you know, because you expect something from me, put no expectations on them. I think that's like, great advice. And, and so Kathy, I, gosh, we could have probably gone on for hours. And I so appreciate your honesty. Your story is so unique. I know. You're like nobody wants to hear my story. Like everybody wants to hear your story Kathy, because it's so unique. And I know there's so much more that you could share with us. So I'm going to give you one opportunity or last opportunity. Is there anything else you would like to say before we close?
Kathy:All I can say is just be open minded with each other and fellow children with parents that were deaf or are deaf and I keep saying more because my parents are deceased. Embrace it, embrace it, because we are very unique too and be willing to be open minded and open hearted to those who are non CODAs. Yeah, don't use your your label as an intimidation.
Tina:Yeah. And you know, Kathy, you and I, I think you did mention the Deaf Club, your dad worked for the deaf club. You know, we had the deaf club as kids and things that happened there. I'm not so sure would be. We won't go there. But look at all of that richness that we had, we were in great. I don't I was, we were so engrained in the deaf community that we had no idea the blessing that was happening to us by having deaf parents never do I regret it. And I've even said, so blessed for having deaf parents. And I've had some people who are like, why would you say that?
Kathy:I'm so sorry. When they say that. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, why??? e
Tina:Don't be sorry. Yeah, don't be sorry. I understand. I can understand it, I love having deaf parents. And I think having you and I both having deaf parents is made us who we are today. And we have been blessed beyond measure. I think you(inaudible) So much. This has been awesome. And I really appreciate you taking the time to come here and to our listening and reading audience. I thank you for coming. I hope that you have learned something from Kathy today. I'm sure you have and just continue to listen. Thank you so much. Thanks, Kathy.
Kathy:Thank you, Tina. Have a good day. Bye bye.