Hello, and welcome to Tina's Corner podcast. We are a group of like minded sign language interpreters set out to improve the field of sign language interpreting deaf and hearing consumers and both Deaf and hearing interpreters complete this triad. And the focus of this podcast is to strengthen that triad. All persons regardless of years of experience will benefit. I am Tina Perry and I welcome you. Today I have invited Paisley Johnson to share her insights and experiences so that others can see that interpreters traveled different roads on their journey, only to arrive at the same destination equality of information for consumers. I would like to welcome Paisley welcome, Paisley.
Paisley:Yes. Hi. Happy to be here.
Tina:Well, I'm glad you're here. Now Paisley is a CODA a Child of Deaf Adults. Her parents are deaf, and she is just getting her feet wet in the field of interpreting. She is a sophomore at The Ohio State University, pursuing and majoring ASL minor and has done some VRS work and is now working as a community interpreter with Heritage Interpreting her current certification, according to her mama, is being a mom's kid. Welcome, Paisley. Thank you. Yeah, your mom, she's something else. I love her dearly.
Paisley:I know.
Tina:I think probably you could agree most people do. Anyway, I'm sure we're going to I will first like for you to tell me a little bit about your family dynamics, if you would.
Paisley:Yeah, definitely. So I am one of five siblings. And we're from a blended family. So there's some stepparents in the mix, stepbrothers and sisters, and we all grew up with deaf parents. And it was definitely one of those kind of things where, when we were younger, we thought nothing of it. And that was normal. But then once we went into school, hanging out with people, because we all went to hearing schools, that was where we started to notice our differences. However, my family had very high expectations and very high morals and values, that it was always something that we were proud of. And we were able to teach others about as well.
Tina:Well, I'm glad you mentioned that I was gonna bring that up a little bit later. But first of all, did you all sign could everybody sign in the family?
Paisley:Yes, we all started learning sign language as our first language, which was mine, I started becoming fluent around the age of, I would say five or six. So did the rest of my siblings. And it was definitely a role (inaudible), like implemented in our daily lives, especially in the household to use sign language around our parents. However, as kids, sometimes we did this obey that rule. But as we got older, we realized like how important that actually is. And that's now embedded into our home life.
Tina:Okay, so you mentioned school. So were there any challenges by having parents who were deaf?
Paisley:I would say there was more challenges when I was younger, rather than when I got older. When I was younger, there were a lot of kids that I would socialize with that just didn't understand. Or they would ask the common question, oh, if your parents are deaf, can they read? Can they write, and they driv? And it almost got to the point where I would start to get offended and frustrated, but then I just realized that instead of feeling that way, I should just teach them about it. And then like, correct them, when they do make those kinds of assumptions. Because the end of the day, you can't blame another person who doesn't know much about the Deaf culture. So it feels like when I was younger, I would be very sensitive about it, or people would always make comments about it. And something I wanted to point out too, is especially when it came to parent teacher conferences when I was younger, or just school events, having an interpreter. When I was younger, I would say that I would get a little bit awkward. And I didn't like the attention. I didn't want people asking me. But again, as I got older, it was one of those things that I realized didn't have to be an awkward situation. And now I'm in a position where I love telling other people about it. And I love other people seeing what that looks like.
Tina:So you didn't grow up being an interpreter, correct?
Paisley:No, and nor did I think I would be at this point now.
Tina:Okay, so we'll go talk a little bit about that as well. So tell me about the parent teacher conferences. And so there was an interpreter at those conferences.
Paisley:Yes, there was always an interpreter and my parents would never let me interpret for them. But I would always tell my teacher ahead of time, almost as like, my way of just ensuring myself that things were gonna go okay, even now, that wasn't necessarily needed to be done. But there was always an interpreter in this way. I, the conversations that needed to be said, with my parents were between the parents and the teacher and not like through me, to my parents coming from the teacher.
Tina:You know, that's interesting because I, too am a CODA. And the other CODAs that I have interviewed have said things like, I interpreted for my parent teacher conferences. And so needless to say, we probably didn't really interpret all that information, you know, so that that's interesting. You're the first one that I've interviewed that says, that has grown up in the era of more technology, VRS and did not do those interpretations. Were there ever. Was there ever a time where did you watch the interpreter? Were you? Or did you kind of ignore them? How did it all play out?
Paisley:Most of the time, I would, I would look at the interpreter more as just, I get since ASL is my first language. It just is what I'm accustomed to. However, I feel like now just between the interpreter being there, and just my parents, I would kind of look more towards the teacher and my parents responses. However, it's just there's times where eye contact is made between the interpreter and my parents. And that's the situation where I would look at them. So I think it just depends on the situation.
Tina:Was there ever, and I'm just gonna say this. I've been in situations where CODAs were there. And I was like, I have no clue what your mom and dad is saying was there ever a time where they may have included you into that interpretation to kind of help the process?
Paisley:There are times where that happened? Like this happened not many times. But my parents again, draw that line for me a lot of times and don't allow me to become part of that, if that makes sense.
Tina:Oh, that makes perfect sense. So your parents really kind a took a stand on these are my children, they're going to be my children. And I will have an interpreter. So they did not blend the roles, correct?(Paisley) Correct. (Tina) Okay. All right. Interesting. And that's the big difference I'm seeing is between, I don't know, if we will just say post VRS and pre VRS pre VRS is that the roles that we played, and we weren't just kids, we were also the family interpreter or however so you did not encounter that type of thing.
Paisley:No, I did not. And I will say that when I was younger, there were parts of me that wanted to kind of be that person. And this usually happened when we would go order at restaurants, there was a part of me that would want to jump in and say, Oh, my mom wants this, and my dad wants it. But I would get shut down immediately because my parents just did not want me to have to take over that role. And my parents, which I'm very proud of the(inaudible) of my parents, they're very independent, independent people. And they don't rely on others, which was very inspiring to me. And as I've grown up, just knowing that and that's how they were, I never had to become, I guess, and I never had to be a part of a situation where I did have to interpret for them.
Tina:Do you think with the technology and VRS, do you think somehow that may have impeded you or may have made? You know, do you feel like you might have missed out on anything? By not being the interpreter?
Paisley:No, I would not say so. Because at the end of the day, my mom and my dad and whoever is a part of the deaf community are their own person, and I don't need for another person and there are services like VRS, even just in person, community interpreters, whatever it is. That's, that's what they're there for. Because I don't I'm already my own person, I my own identities. And as an interpreter and using these services, it's their way of expressing theirselves and their identity as the interpreter is not. It's really just portraying what they are saying and expressing what they are saying. So this way they are expressing their own opinions, thoughts, and their identities and their personalities. And that can't always be portrayed through me as I have my own identity.
Tina:Absolutely. Now your mom is deaf, stepdad. How about your biological father?
Paisley:Yes. So it was it's actually my stepmom, and my dad and then my biological mom, and all three of them are deaf.
Tina:Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. And do you have any other relatives?
Paisley:Yes, I My aunt is also deaf. My grandfather was hard of hearing, one ear deaf with. I am also deaf in my left ear. Well, so I'm also considered heard of hearing. Other than that, that's really all I know when it goes if you go into my grandfather's bloodline like great grandfather's and so on, there was the pattern of the hard of hearing and deaf. I just never had met them because it's so long ago.
Tina:Wow. Wow. You know what I for some reason I assumed Deborah was your mom, biological mom, I you know what? Because it just felt so NAT she's. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I made that assumption. I think, you know, she just, you would not know any different with Deborah. But I think Deborah's just everybody's mom, you know, she's just,
Paisley:I've been calling her mom since I was like, 10 years old. So she's a mom to me.
Tina:Well, that's awesome. I'm glad to hear that. So now you are interpreting. So you still took that leap into the field of interpreting by even though you were not an interpreter as a child? Why will now why?
Paisley:Well, really, I'm kind of giving a little back story, my dad always wanted me to be an interpreter because I was very fluent in it. And I always said, No, dad's like, this is already something I know, I want to try something else out. However, I got into this mindset a little bit where I did want to take part of being or giving the interpreting company like a chance for like more deaf people to use their services. Because I don't know if this is like very well known. But there's a lot of time even though our technology is very advanced. Now there are a lot of times where there's long wait times for using video relay service, or sometimes interpreter doesn't show up, or somebody doesn't have an interpreting agency to support and provide for the deaf customer. And if I could just be one more person that can give them that service. That just makes me feel a lot better on the inside considering how I want to give back to the deaf community. Because although I myself and not completely deaf, I still want to like help me, like help the deaf community and just be there and be their advocates. Because I think that's very important. And I do think that there are times where they aren't always completely heard. So if I can help them, that's what I'm gonna do.
Tina:So actually not being an interpreter as a child, but you still have that deaf culture within you. And Deaf Heart. So it sounds like to me what you're saying is, it wasn't really so necessary for me to be an interpreter. But I think that whole Deaf Heart and being involved with the Deaf is even more important than necessarily being a child interpreter. Would you agree?
Paisley:I would agree.
Tina:And I think that's awesome. And I think, you know, that's just one thing that's really missing. And it's not something that well I'm can we learn Deaf Culture? Yeah, we can. But I don't think it's I don't think that is as easy as growing up within the Deaf community. Like you have been. So now that you've been in the field , I think you said probably about eight months into it. Tell me what do you think?
Paisley:Well, it's definitely something I've never experienced before. So I've been able to be an interpreter and even just talked to so many deaf, or deaf customers and deaf people from all over the state. And it was really, really fascinating and cool to me, because I have my onset family and the way that they talk and communicate and their sign. I'm so accustomed to use, what my parents and how they express themselves and how they sign. But I've actually been able to see so many different ways of expressing other people's communications and thoughts and ideas. I've seen different signs I've never seen before, I've been able to see so many more personalities. And I just, I felt like I guess, I always felt like I knew the Deaf culture. But I really just knew my parents. And this just opened up what the Deaf culture really means on a whole other level.
Tina:And that is a common thing that I'm hearing with CODAs is they say, I my thought world was what happened in my, in my family. I thought everybody, you know, did whatever I thought everybody signed this way. I thought everybody reacted this way. And I'm hearing that, because and probably typical even with hearing families, we think this is how the whole world is. And I mean, I've been interpreting for over 40 some years. And the same thing happened with me. I thought everybody use these "home" signs. You know, in my first couple of assignments, assignments, when I first started interpreting, I was like, Oh, you don't all sign this for cereal or whatever. Did you ever encounter. I mean, do you even know? I'm sure you do know what I'm talking about when it comes to "home" signs, but was that something that you had to kind of get through? ,
Paisley:Oh definitely. And I have there is one one time where someone was making, not making fun of me, but they were just laughing because of the way that I was signing the word"deposit". And I was so confused on why they were laughing. And they're like, oh, no, it's that's just not how I sign it. I've been in situations like that multiple times where I will sign something that I've always thought was the correct way to do it. And they were saying, Oh, actually, because there's something that's called like territorial signs like and just like in different regions and different parts of the states, there's sometimes those patterns you can see where there's different signs for different things, or even just the same thing. So I've seen a lot of that. And sometimes I get made fun of not actually made fun of but just a little laugh here and there. And I'm like, I didn't know that. But now I'm going to remember two different signs for one word, or three different signs for one word,
Tina:Exactly. You know what I told you, I've been doing this for how many years? And just today, somebody corrected me for a sign that was like, Oh, okay. And you know, and they were, they were like, This is the sign for it. I'm like, okay, and exactly like you. Alright, now I have another choice. What I don't think people realize, especially when we're doing video relay is, we encounter people all over the United States, and sometimes and in other countries. And so you know, it's like, okay, that's your side. Perfect. I'm going to use that while we're here And if it comes up again, yay, for me. And if not, well, then whatever. So yeah, I think that's great. And I hear you say, you know, they make fun of me. I mean, you're right, I don't think it's a make fun. It's like sometimes, again, if it's if it's a "home" sign or your territorial signs or whatever. It's like, okay, that's all fine. But I, you know, I, I've experienced that that very same thing. And like I said, I've been doing this for 40 years, and just today, it happened to me. And I don't know, do you think as, tell me, do you have thick skin?
Paisley:Um, in the beginning, I thought I did. And I definitely didn't, there's definitely times where I've made mistakes, or there was definitely times where, you know, someone might have not been like, super pleased with me, or when they do pick out something like that, I get a little offended. But as I've been doing this, even after two months of it, I realized just how it's not meant to be mean, or it's not meant to be offensive. And I finally I would say, I think I'm a lot better than when I started. And now things just roll off really quickly. You know what I mean?(Tina)vYeah, sure. (Paisley) first time. Yeah. First time, I said, Oh, I got this in the bag. And then I just wasn't like one of the days. So it definitely worked out in the end. .
Tina:Yeah. And I think there are days where it does impact us differently. So tell me, what are your goals? Now I know you're going to The Ohio State University getting your degree in ASL studies. So what are your plans to do with that?
Paisley:So well, to add on to the ASL minor, I am a Psychology major with a pre occupational therapy track. And the reason why I paired the ASL minor as an occupational therapy together is because my goal in the future is to work in some sort of pediatric hospital or just work with younger kids who need to go see an occupational therapist, which a lot of times are actually deaf kids, or just those who have cognitive or sensory physical disabilities. You know, like, it's a variety of different things that they might be experiencing. And I feel like that it's a perfect way for me to be able to incorporate my knowledge from a Deaf culture or just even in general being able to be communicate as to somebody who might be more of a visual learner, and take that and take, like my experience and my background and incorporate it into this new field, which I think could be very beneficial for programs in the hospital wherever I end up, I think that could be a really great add on to like, what they can provide.
Tina:Oh, I think you're right, I think that's awesome. And do you think the field that your dad is in do you think that might have impacted you, as well?
Paisley:I think so in a way my dad, always. He's a very people person, he always wants to help any always. I always feel like sometimes I don't even think he does things for himself because he wants to help somebody else out. And I think I get that a little bit from him. I've always been a people person. I've always wanted somebody to talk to me about struggles or just if they needed help, I wanted to be that person. So I think that's kind of like what even brought me or gave me that little more of a push to put myself into an interpreting position, as well as like what I'm envisioning for myself in the near future. I think that does kind of stem from him.
Tina:Paisley a lot of this information. going to be used in the educational post secondary field to help those who are not CODAs who are going through an ITP. To learn more about who we are as CODAs, can you give a non CODA student some good advice?
Paisley:I think the best advice I could give a non CODA would be to really pay attention to facial expressions, and physical movements and how they talk to you talk to that non CODA person who wants to become an interpreter, I feel like you can learn so much. Because I do understand, sometimes it's hard to put yourself in their shoes. And a lot of people might say that, and I think it's great. But sometimes you're never going to fully understand until you were there for everything that person has done. Instead, really become more kind of what I was saying that visual learners look at what the deaf person is doing. How are they expressing themselves? Like, what are their facial expressions, because that can help you really be able to gauge what that person wants you to portray as you're interpreting for the deaf customer.
Tina:So it's not just about how they're signing, but it's are what they're signing, but more about how they are signing it. The intent behind the message and and I think in do you have any advice for them about working with a CODA?
Paisley:they were to, like, are you saying a non CODA working with a CODA.
Tina:Correct.
Paisley:Um, I would say that the best way to work with a CODA as a non CODA, to me would be honestly talk to them and ask them their experiences, kind of talk to them being as if you're like, wanting to learn a little bit more, because they're gonna have a different perspective than a deaf person. When you go into interpreting or when you go into ASL, you're learning more about just deaf people. But CODAs have their own culture. I feel like they have their own identity as well. So asking them how they might differentiate themselves, or how they identify themselves to really get one to learn a whole other perspective of the Deaf Culture.
Tina:Yeah, I agree. I think that's great advice. Hey, Paisley, thank you so much for coming. I, I really appreciate your information. And I mean, it's just so different. But it's so funny, because like what I said in the beginning, we all have a different journey. We're all on a different path. But you know, for those of us who make this our career, and I'm not so sure you're making it your career, but I think you're making it part of your career, that we all try to get to the same place. And that's just to be able to make sure that information is equal to what we hear is what they see. And I just, I really want to thank you for taking the time to come and do this. I wish you all the best in your endeavors. And you know, who knows who knows where that's all going to take you. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Paisley:Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm really glad that I got this opportunity.
Tina:Well, I appreciate it. And I want to thank our listening and reading audience, and who knows you may see Paisley out in the field someday. Thank you so much for listening, and thank you for being here. Have a great day.