Hello and welcome to Tina's Corner Podcast. We are a group of like minded sign language interpreters, set out to improve the field of sign language interpreting. We have deaf & hearing consumers and also DeafBlind consumers and both Deaf and hearing interpreters. The focus of this podcast, is to strengthen the bond between these groups of individuals. All persons, regardless of years of experience will benefit from this podcast. I am Tina Perry, and I welcome you. Now today I have invited Sharon Bordean, Sharon is going to come and share her insights and experiences so that others can see that interpreters traveled different roads on their journey, only to arrive at the same destination. Equality of information for all consumers. Sharon, welcome.
Sharon:Hey, Tina, how are you?
Tina:Hi, (inaudible), how are you doing?
Sharon:I'm great. Thank you, God's good. And I'm just ready to go.
Tina:I hear you. I hear you. That's why I asked you to come because I know you're so full of wisdom and full of God's love that I know you have a lot of valuable information for those who are listening. I'd like to introduce Sharon to everybody. Sharon Bordean is a very unique individual. She is RID certified. She is a CSCC, which is Columbus State Community College. For those of you who do not know, that is in Ohio. She's a graduate from their ITP program, and has worked for over 30 years as an educational interpreter, from which she retired, and is now doing video relay service interpreting part time. Now, she and her husband Eugene, who has now gone to be with the Lord. Were involved with a deaf ministry in Canton, Ohio, from 1974 to 1986. In 1986, Eugene answered God's call to establish a church for the Deaf in Columbus, Ohio, where they started Liberty Baptist Church of the Deaf. Now Sharon is still very involved with the ministry of the church and is doing a deaf ministry all over. They have three adult children, all are RID certified and involved in deaf ministry in one way or another. Sharon, God has certainly touched you and your family's lives. That's incredible.
Sharon:Thank you. It's only by the grace of God, isn't it Tina?
Tina:It sure is. And then , for you to have three children, was it Eugene's parents that were deaf. Is that correct?
Sharon:Correct. My husband's parents were deaf. His mom got divorced , so she and her husband were deaf, then when she remarried, she married another deaf man. So my kids had three grandmas and grandpas that were deaf.
Tina:Now tell me a little bit about yourself. Did you know how to sign when you and Eugene met?
Sharon:No, I met him through church at an activity. But his step brothers and sisters were my friends. And they told me about their parents and being deaf. And I went over and visited, and that was my very first experience to even see a deaf person, let alone listening trying to listen to their voice and to understand what they were saying.
Tina:So wow you learned how to sign from being married to Eugene? (Sharon) correct, correct (Tina) Wow. Wow, that's awesome. And then you then pursued the field of interpreting like as, like your children has have done already. That's incredible. That's awesome. So Sharon, I want you to take me just give me a little bit of background about your interpreting experience in the settings of religious, spiritual settings.
Sharon:So you know, a lot of this has been trial by fire just learning long time ago, we had no mentors, no one. No workshop to teach us what to do. But in 1974, when we started getting involved in a deaf ministry, at my home church in Canton, Ohio, tried and tried. And we had deaf people teaching us, and especially my Eugene stepfather, he would teach sign language classes at church. But then, he would teach us straight English, then I would see him turn around and just sign with his friends. Like, what is he doing? Well, of course, we learned that, you know, I learned that ASL. But it was very interesting then. But for now, all I guess I could say is I've interpreted in many, many situations throughout time, not always the right way. But I remember long ago when people would say, Oh, you're just a church interpreter like no, I want church interpreters to be the best they can be, as good as or better than, you know, a lot of interpreters out in the field because we're imparting God's word and it's so important. So I say some of the different kinds of religious interpreting that I've done would be, obviously church services. But then there's other things in the school system, like Fellowship of Christian Athletes, School Club, Deaf camps, Bible conferences, retreats, wedding, anniversaries, senior citizen fellowship, Christian counseling, had the opportunity, one time to interpret Billy Graham crusade. And that was a very special, or also all these christian concerts, I love interpreting those, as well as missionary reports and people from all around the world in different countries and using some of their different signs. I loved interpreting all them.
Tina:And that's why I asked you to be here, because your experience is so vast that there are many, many things that sometimes we don't even consider, you know, I've been called to assignments and it's like, well, this is just a typical assignment. And then we get there. And somehow it turns towards a religious assignment, is there a better way of saying that do we do we want to say"religious assignments" or Is that what you refer to them as?
Sharon:Something that the word God comes up or there's some spiritual counseling, kind of like interpreting with video relay calls, all of a sudden, you're interpreting you never know who's going to come on the screen, or who the hidden person is. And I might be doing some counseling, it could be a grief, grief counseling, could be a school counseling interpreting in school classes, I'm just interpreting in a history class, and all of a sudden, they start talking about Martin Luther King. And some of the speeches are like, wow, there's so full of God's Word in those it's amazing. So yes, it's so important to be able to know the Bible to do a better job at interpreting.
Tina:Well, that takes me to my next question, then. So tell me how important it is for us to know the Bible. If we are talking about wanting to interpret in, let's just say, church, we'll just narrow it right down to church service. How important do you think it is for us to know our Bible?
Sharon:I think it's very, very, absolutely important, top priority, because how can you interpret well, without being knowledgeable of what you're going to interpret? You need to know, books of the Bible, you need to know, people of the Bible, you need to have timeframes. You need to know Old Testament information, background, New Testament information. If you don't, and you're lost and confused, what you're interpreting can also be kind of cloudy, they're not going to get the real picture.
Tina:Absolutely. That's a great point. I think the other point for that as well is if you know the stories, and when the pastor or preacher, you know, is talking, you can kind of do you're predicting, like, I know where this is going. I know this story. I know where we're heading. And I think that's another valuable asset to knowing the Bible.
Sharon:You're so right, Tina, that's right.
Tina:And so, and you know, it's really hard to read the Bible right now. I'm teaching a Chronological Bible study, we just start from the beginning and go to the end. I don't think people realize that the Old Testament and the New Testament is really just one long story. And it just changes all the way. And I think a lot of people think, Oh, this is just one book. This is just another book, you know,
Sharon:Right you're right. Oh, it's so important. So many things in the New Testament reference back to the Old Testament as well, just like the eunuch that was trying to read scripture. He's reading from Isaiah, well, here's Philip getting ready to help him. So knowing from what's going on and knowing the stories in Old Testament is so invaluable many, many, many hearing people as well as deaf people don't know those stories. And it's so important to have that content and know what's being said, and you can interpret so much clearer.
Tina:So in a church setting, what types of things could I encounter, just being the interpreter for church?
Sharon:I've interpreted both in hearing church for the deaf ministry, and the Deaf Church. So obviously in the hearing church voice to sign, I'm interpreting announcements, as well as the preaching, maybe a new members class, interpreting music, then talking about Deaf church, which I've been interpreting here in Columbus in 1986 and on, everything is done by deaf people, deaf pastored, deaf people leading worship, music, and so I need them voice all those things. Maybe reading of scripture, prayer requests, birthdays and announcements, maybe anniversaries are going to congratulate people as well. Just a myriad of things to voice interpret as a hearing church would be while you're doing this with a deaf people. And so there are a few hearing people that attend because their family's deaf and maybe they just don't know sign sign language very well. And so I'm there to make sure that equal access to hearing people as I voice interpret.
Tina:That's a good point. You know, I had one of my worst experiences was during a funeral and it was a funeral conducted. It was my friend's father, who was deaf, passed away, and did not dawn on me that the pastor was deaf, and I believe it was at Liberty and this has been about probably 10 years ago, the pastor signed in ASL the 23rd Psalm. Well, guess what? I know the 23rd Psalm. But I don't knowwww the 23rd Psalm. You know what I mean? So when it came time for me to voice that, it was frozen text. And you can't make up words to the 23rd Psalm and it was it was a disaster. It was a I was embarrassed. It was a disaster for me. So I think we forget. It's not just about hearing pastors, this is also about having a deaf pastor, or deaf minister as well.
Sharon:Right, right. I know. But we live, we live through those experiences. And we learn and we just try to ask for outlines. Ask for maybe the Deaf pastor, or my deaf pastor is really good, at a funeral he will hand me, but mostly he's going to say in scripture typed out, and I so much appreciate that.
Tina:So that is what I wanted to ask you. How do you prepare for your set, religious and settings? Settings?
Sharon:That is a great question, Tina. For me, I would say start with prayer. Just keep praying that the Holy Spirit will help me to give me wisdom and know what to do. But first thing I did on usually Monday morning, I would contact the secretary, the church secretary and just say, "Hey, do you know what the pastor's preaching on this Sunday? Is there any way you can ask him this week and send me an outline? Email the outlines to me so I can read over it, get the scriptures that he's gonna be preaching from so I can study those on my own"? Get with the music director, the person that's going to be leading worship, and either I personally go to him and say,"Hey, you do such an amazing job leading worship? Can you give me the list of songs for next Sunday so that I can study and prepare and the deaf people can love to worship God along with you"? Usually that works. Usually, and I used to go to the people, when they were doing a special music or special songs for church, at the hearing church, and I will say,"I love your song choices. You just think from your heart! Would you mind giving me the words to the song so I can study and do a good job as long as as well as you are"? And usually they feel like, Yes, I'm so glad to be able to include them. And if they don't, can't give me words, I say can you at least give me the title and then I'll look it up. And I'll, I'll practice it this week, so that deaf people enjoy it as well as the hearing people. They also well, I think wearing what we wear too is very important. As an interpreter, we want to make sure if we can to have more solid clothing, top so that, you know it's easy to for the Deaf people to understand. And I've also learned that sleeveless things are really not as good it needs to be something with sleeves. I've also learned that lighting is important to make sure I'm seen so that there's no glare, and the deaf people can see me and they also learn that, if I can stand to interpret where they Deaf people can see me as well kind of past me and see the speaker, the person that singing think that people enjoy that so much more. Not always possible, but I think that is very beneficial. And also I think for me interpreting in church, I always loved standing, but I guess it would be up to the deaf people. If it's a smaller group and the interpreter was to sit down and deaf people say sure, then that's fine. That's great. But sometimes they'll say, Well, do you mind if I standt? And they'll like sure, I enjoy standing up.
Tina:I am an interpreter who likes to stand more than I like to sit but I think that's a I think it's good. Sounds like to me your involving your deaf parishioners. Sounds like to me, you are pretty assertive in the fact that you go to the people that you need to get the information from. And that that's important, I think that's important for us as interpreters to hear is that we have a job to do. And we want to do it well. So it sounds like you are very assertive in those in those respects.
Sharon:Yes I feel it's so important because I want the deaf people, is my desire to see Deaf people involved as much in worshiping God as all the hearing congregation.
Tina:Yeah. And you said it earlier some people say, Oh, you're just a church interpreter. Oh, just go to church and practice your interpreting. Like they don't take it seriously. I find, first of all, interpreting in that setting is probably one of the most challenging settings to interpret for. (Sharon) I agree Tina (Tina) Secondl, I think it's very important for me personally, and it sounds like for you as well, I take my religious beliefs seriously. And I believe that if you're coming to church, you deserve for me to take your religious beliefs seriously as well. So tell me, this might be a challenging question for you. But maybe not. But do you believe that if a person is not a believer of the beliefs for the church that they are interpreting should they take that assignment?
Sharon:That's a great question, Tina, I believe there are so many assignments out there that can be for interpreters to have a job and to interpret, but personally, to interpret in a church, I strongly believe that the interpreter needs examine their own heart. Have they personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior? Because through him, God is the one that gives us the power and the wisdom to interpret and the Holy Spirit can empower us what to say, and how to sign it and make sure that it's clear. And if a person doesn't know about God, how can it's like me interpreting a Spanish class at school, and I really don't understand Spanish, I can put across those signs or me going to calculus class, okay, I don't understand it. I'll interpret it, but it's words and signs the numbers. But I feel so much more competent when it was a history class or English, something that I knew so well, that I was able to interpret much more fluidly. For the same with a church, if I want to take that assignment, or I want to interpret it in church, it's got to be a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. And then yes, I believe a christian is the one that needs to be interpreting in church so that God's word can pour out of their hearts and out their hands.
Tina:That's a great point. And I agree, I think I'm not even sure why I would want to interpret in a church that I did not believe the same way they did. I don't, I definitely know, I could not be where I could not interject things that I didn't believe, you know, with your facial expression or whatever. I just, I just personally would not do it. I would not and regardless of what everybody thinks, oh, no, you're qualified! No, I personally would rather be. I believe that I would have to be a believer of what's going on there in order to be able to interpret faithfully to my deaf consumer. And I think you would agree.
Sharon:I definitely agree, because it would show on my face, even though I don't want to show it on my face. It would still on my face be like, "What are you saying"? You know, and there has to be like minded service that I feel most comfortable interpreting. One time I interpreted for different well, I guess I'll just say a Catholic wedding, or something. And so I had to really prepare for that and get the words and, you know, they are singing in Latin. And so you know, I'd say they're singing in Latin, but then I had the words in English, I've done my homework and you know, figured it out. And then I asked the Deaf people as they were, they're like, Okay, "what sign do you use for this, but find use for that" and trying to so that I can match and do an effective job. I personally was not real comfortable with that. And I guess I don't know that I never want to do that again. But there were some friends and I said, Okay, I'll be glad to do that. But I'd much more do something at a church that it's all the same faith the same one body, one Christ, one savior, you know, and people share that.
Tina:But I think you knew and I think I hear what you're saying like a wedding. I've interpreted for weddings where that wasn't my my faith or my belief, but they asked me and they you know, we have that discussion, you know, and so we go through that they understand. This is not my religion. This is not my faith, but you're asking me to do it. So we agree that we I do it that one time. I think sometimes we get into assignments, like we get there and it's like, Oh, I did not know this was going to how it was going to be I'll finish that assignment but I'm like, okay, note to self, next time ask these questions, so that I know don't get into a situation where I'm not wanting to be there. So I'm going to ask you, what do you do you believe that it's okay to charge for our interpretation in religious settings?
Sharon:That's a really great question too, because boy, everybody needs to be earning money. I think at the very beginning of that, whether you're taking that assignment or not, you need to be talking to that church, do they have money to be able to afford to pay you as an interpreter, and if you're interpreting, you know, an hour and a half, two hours, are they willing to pay for two interpreters? Often, especially for Deaf churches, they don't have the money there to be able to pay for voice interpreter. For me, I think a rule of thumb is if that church can pay for a piano player, they should be able to pay for an interpreter. That's just my feeling. But for me, personally, I interpret at church, voice interpreting, primarily, but I do that as a ministry and not as a job. I just feel like God's gonna reward me, you know, he's writing that down in heaven that's things I'm doing for God. There's lots of people in church that are serving and doing administering, and they're not getting paid. So I personally feel it's fine. It's all right. God's gonna take care of his provide my needs, and I'm good with that.
Tina:And I think that's a good point. But I think we also are saying that if you are somebody who wants to interpret in a church and you are charging a fee, that's okay, too. (Sharon) Yeah you're right. (Tina) I tend to use it as an offering. I do weddings, I do that as a gift. But does that mean somebody else has to? Absolutely not! I think it just depends. It also, I think, depends upon the relationship you have with the church that you are interpreting for.
Sharon:Right, right.
Tina:Sometimes this whole interpreting at a church is so new to many churches, they're like, Oh, we've never had an interpreter before. You know, we don't know what, and it's our responsibility as the interpreter to inform them. of, you know, what is protocol. And here, I'm willing to do this, but to also let them know that this may, this is me, but another interpreter may come in here at a future date and say, No, I charge blah, blah, blah. And that's okay. That is okay.
Sharon:Yeah, that's good to make that church aware of that. Yes, I definitely agree. And yeah,you're right, I often have interpreted weddings like this is my wedding gift. I'm glad to do this for you. And sometimes funerals to the funeral home, from here in Columbus, what I've learned is the funeral home, if it's a deaf family member that alive and maybe a family member that's passed, they might be hearing or deaf, but the insurance will pay for the interpreter for the funeral. But if it's a deaf person that has died, and everybody's hearing in a family, immediate family, then the funeral home tell me they're not obligated at all to pay for an interpreter like, wow, that was just a couple years ago, they told me, I had never heard that before.
Tina:Now, you know, my husband's a pastor as well. And when he goes in, that automatically, not automatically, whenever there's a need for sign language interpreter, the funeral director will ask, "what's the fee?" They don't even ask the family, did I say parents, I mean the people invovled, they just automatically just say here's ithe fee for this, this and this and this. And usually, if there's a sign language interpreter, that fee is just put in there and a check is already available for them when the funeral is over. (Sharon) That's definately the way it should be Tina. (Tina) Yeah. And I think it's awkward for us to go in and say I charge $50 I don't know something I charge$50, it's awkward. It's, you know, I have interpreted for families who are deaf and their family members have died. And they asked me like, "What do you charge"? I'm like, you know, this is awkward for me. You know, I it's just a hard discussion to have. Because yeah. just a very hard to discussion to have. And I think it's nicer that the funeral directors take care of that for us.
Sharon:Yeah, see, I agree. 100%, I do have a funeral home that I work with, at times. And they'll call it we've already set up a price agreement when you know what I'm going to charge what they're going to pay me and it's usually somebody I don't know. And that's great. That's all taken care of ahead of time. But the harder time is when it's somebody I know and maybe they're going to a funeral home. Usually it'll be the family that asked me and then that's where it gets harder.
Tina:And sometimes I just say you know what, up to it's up to you, you decide, and whatever they decide is fine, and sometimes it may be minimal. Sometimes it may be maximal. I know that's not a word, but it's minimal. It's just whatever. Because if I really needed a certain amount of money, then I need to speak up and say that, but I just, I, when I do those things I, it depends. I think what we're saying is it depends upon the relationship that you have. But I think it's also important for us to inform these places like, Listen, this is what I do. But you may encounter a different situation with another interpreter, which is absolutely fine as well. Because that brings me to my next question of volunteering. Is it okay to volunteer? And I think I mean, would you agree, I think it's okay to volunteer every so often. I think we got to be careful with how much volunteering we do because we set precedence.
Sharon:Even going back, yes, going back to the funeral home, if it's been a family death, the ones that asked me then maybe the funeral home or the director will say something to me, I said, Well, we've already got this taken care of. I said, but just so you know, you guys, it's important that you set up, bringing in interpreters and you taking care of the fee to pay the interpreter. This time, you know, we've worked this out. And usually I don't always tell them, but often it's just I'm doing it for them out of my love for that family. But I always I try my best to let them know, there was a funeral home, I went to up in northern Ohio, and I knew the person that deaf man and that asked me to interpret. So I asked him, like, how much do you guys normally pay for interpreters? And he said, we don't pay for interpreters. I said, Well, this time, you know, I'm doing this because I'm here. He said, but really, when I go through this, Ada and all 1990, I said, "really, if you're going to bring in another interpreter, they will expect to have compensation for this" and " they're like, oh, no, never heard that". Yeah, it really is important. So I try to at least always let someone know,
Tina:it is important. And like we want to set that precedence. And before that, I think it's always been awkward. But we are professionals, we are professionals, first and foremost. And I think it's just I don't think people see us in that light. So what about I don't think we also realize about weddings, and I'll just kind of talk about that one, quickly about charging to do a wedding, I think people forget how much is involved when doing somebody's wedding.
Sharon:Right, there's rehearsal, then there's a wedding, there's pictures where many times they want the interpreter there to make sure to get everybody in the right place and call the names that are, you know, photographers calling out names or assigning the name. And there's the reception, there's a toast, there's all kinds of things to interpret at a wedding that are included in that.
Tina:And you may be asked to go and do the pre wedding planning, all that type of stuff. And again, you know, it, we may be easy to say, I'm just doing this as a gift. But we also have to consider how much time we're being asked to put in it's not just a 20 minute wedding ceremony. Sharon I really appreciate you coming, you've given us some great insight, I want to ask you, what one piece of advice, your best advice that you would give to either a recent grad or somebody who's in the program, about if you're considering to go into this specialized area of religious interpreting what one and you probably have a lot of great advice, but give me one thing we can we can close with.
Sharon:And try to narrow that down. I would say if you're really considering getting into religious interpreting, to start going to that church to that event that's happening and watch, observe and then after you do that a couple times and ask if you can be part of that team. And so that the the experience interpreter can give feedback and encourage you to so you can build, and and then you'll be able to take on more responsibility of interpreting you know, whether it's beginning or it's just announcements and seeing takes it's a real skill to interpret music so that deaf people love and enjoy it. But then you'll before you can work your way up to having more experience and eventually someday interpreting a message. And I think it's really important that we interpret to so Deaf people understand doesn't matter. Fancy signs or us being able to fingerspell big words 100 miles an hour is us going slowly our facial expressions, our whole being is involved in our interpretation of the church service. And just to remember, our hands become God's voice to the deaf.
Tina:That's awesome. I love that. One thing I want to say, and I should have said that before you gave us that great piece of advice is, you know, my dad died in April, and you came. And when you came, you were like Tina, can I help out with the interpreting? And And you probably were expecting me to say "no", but I'm like, "Yes".
Sharon:I know. You said yes or no, you you're always prepared. But I thought, I'm just gonna ask because, well, I have so much to remember when it's your family that has passed away.
Tina:Well, I was prepared. I had two interpreters. And then I ended up needing four because I forgot that they not did, I forgot the people visiting would be deaf, but people were in the back of the room. And it we really needed to have two interpreters, which you and Ron both came in and did that for me. And I'm so appreciative. But it was just, again, I was like, I wasn't even prepared for the people in the back of the room, who are also deaf. And for I just want to tell you, thank you again, for doing that for us that made such a world of difference. And that's what, that's what God does. He puts us in places sometimes it's like, what am I doing here? And then you're like, Oh, now I know.
Sharon:Yes. And it was an honor to be able to be part of that. Well, thank you, for all that you shared that day.
Tina:And I appreciate you being there. And taking the time to do that. And, and to our listening audience. I think what Sharon has for us today, first of all, many of you already know Sharon, and you already know her heart. You already know her. Just how wonderful she is. And so kind and I don't know if I've ever heard Sharon say a bad word about anybody ever. And just as a kind, kind soul. And I'm so thankful to you that you have come here today, Sharon, thank you. I asked that God continue to bless you and to the our listening audience. Thank you for listening. I know this is not one of our typical interpreting interviews, but that's okay. That's what this is what this is all about. This is interpreting, but also showing the love of God and I thank you so much, Sharon, for being here. And thank you to our listening audience for listening and reading. Have a blessed day.