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Hello and welcome to Tina's Corner Podcast. We are a group of like minded sign language interpreters set out to improve the field of sign language interpreting. We have deaf consumers, hearing consumers, and deaf blind consumers, and both hearing and deaf interpreters. And the focus of this podcast is to strengthen the bond between those groups of individuals. All persons, regardless of years of experience will benefit from this podcast. I am Tina Perry, and I welcome you. Today I have invited Dee Dee Ball to share her insights and experiences so that others can see that interpreters travel different roads on their journeys, only to arrive at the same destination, equality of information for all consumers. Welcome, Dee Dee..
Dee Dee:Thank you, Tina. It's great to be here.
Tina:And you actually are on a journey right now I would say.
Dee Dee:I am very true
Tina:Out in, from Ohio. But out in California. Am I right?
Dee Dee:I am. Yes, that is exactly where I am. I'm in Northern California and responding to the wildfires that happened here.
Tina:Okay. And that kind of explains what you kind of just told us that you are currently working for FEMA. Correct?
Dee Dee:That is right.
Tina:How long have you been with them?
Dee Dee:Just over two years. And it's been quite an adventure
Tina:Yeah, I bet it has, is there a contracted time that you will be with them?
Dee Dee:It's supposed to be for two years and then you get re renewed but I wasn't even asked if I wanted to renew I was just renewed.
Tina:Oh that means you did a great job doing okay. You must be doing all right. Well Dee Dee has two beautiful daughters. And from what I understand, one of her daughters just recently became engaged. That's always exciting, isn't it? (Dee Dee) Very exciting. (Tina) And you got to be there by the grace of God from what I understand.
Dee Dee:It sure did happen unexpectedly. But it was great.
Tina:Good. I'm glad and I bet your daughter was excited that you were there. Dee Dee has been married for 30 wonderful years, and has been interpreting off and on for the last 32 years. Kind of difficult Dee Dee you're only 33. (Dee Dee) I wish.(Tina) as a freelance interpreter she has worked in many different settings, educational, medical, mental health, recovery, artistic business and business settings. Now like we just said she's currently working for FEMA. But the reason we have Dee Dee here today is because she is has been doing religious interpreting ongoing, I would probably say off and on. But Dee Dee brings us a lot of good information and a lot of good advice for working in the settings of religious interpreting. So that's why we brought Dee Dee here today. Dee Dee thank you so much. (Dee Dee) You're very welcome. (Tina) So let's go back Dee Dee. Can you kind of give me a little background information of well tell me what got you into this interpreting field anyway?
Dee Dee:You're gonna love this story. When I was a little girl, there was an interpreter in the bubble, on TV. And I just thought that was the neatest thing. And any time that would come on, I was just frozen in my seat, I would not move. Didn't matter if my mom asked me to do something. I'm watching that interpreter in the bubble. I don't have any deaf people in my family. I didn't have deaf neighbors. I didn't. I've never met a deaf person. But that experience kind of stuck with me. When I went to college, ended up I had a grant. And I had to have another class in order to keep my grant. And so I thought, I'm going to add sign language to that. And so I took that class, and we call it a 10 week wonder class. Because I was taught during that class that this was all there was. That's all I needed to know. And after, yeah, afterwards, you believing what I learned in my college level class. I went to a church, and they had a deaf ministry and I thought, oh, I can do something here. And they said, Okay, we actually want you to work with the three and four year olds and they have deaf kids in there. Okay. I went in and didn't understand one thing. Any kid said to me, and I was like, Hey, I'm the wrong person. And realize that 10 wonderful weeks was not wonderful enough. And ended up at Columbus State, took those classes. And sure enough, a couple years after I graduated, I became an interpreter in the bubble. .
Tina:Yeah I shared that spot as well. But you know what, I forgot to mention that you also served as an adjunct instructor at Columbus State, right?
Dee Dee:I did. Yeah. Yeah.
Tina:I'm sorry. I didn't mention that in the beginning. So you were the church interpreter wonder, but it sounds like it you were more you left more wondering what what's this all about and found out that in that 10 week course.
Dee Dee:Yeah, true. That's true.
Tina:That's a great story. Great story. So tell me about your okay so you went to Columbus State, then I'm assuming you graduated. And then you were the wonderful interpreter that you set out to be upon graduation?
Dee Dee:Yes. Well, after I graduated, I literally said yes to every possible job that came my way. Anything that I really felt like I was qualified to do, especially if there was another interpreter there who could mentor me. I said, Yes. So instead of being afraid to try, I was very upfront with what my limitations were, and I just jumped in and did it. And I will say that one of the first jobs I, I got, I worked at a church. And I would not have said that I was the perfect candidate. I didn't know religious signs, or anything, I just was available. And that was what they needed someone who was breathing, who can talk to their son, and help him understand what was going on in the church. And so I did that for a year and learned so much in that process. It was wonderful. So because that was along with everything else I was doing,
Tina:Because of the skill of breathing. Thank you, Jesus.(laughter) You know, you've mentioned something in there. You mentioned a lot in there that I thought I'll talk about that. But the one thing I wanted to hear I hear you say is about learning those religious signs. How How did that happen? Because I'm even for myself, you know, with a husband, a pastor husband, sometimes I'm in you know, like, Oh, what is the sign for that? Because you, it's not commonly you don't commonly see those signs out and about, how did you go about learning them?
Dee Dee:Yeah, most of it was from that environment. Some I was able to ask his parents, although they were not fluent. And I would ask the child themselves, and they were able to tell me what they use. And I didn't know at that time, if that was really the sign that was used, or if it was just his sign. And this is, you know, I'll show my age was before the internet. So I knew you couldn't just go on and find an YouTube video that of someone signing of Bible verse or whatever, like you can now, there's so many resources now. And so a lot of it was just experience and asking other interpreters and other people that you've probably even spoken with, like Sharon Bordean, I call her up, say, hey, Sharon, how do you do this? Hey, Debbie, my friend, Debbie, how do you find this? And so I just learned by doing basically,
Tina:yeah, and I think, with the Catholic mass TV lady in the bubble, that's what I did it for Catholic mass, and I'm not Catholic.
Dee Dee:And boy, I grew up Catholic. And so when they asked me to do the interpreter in the bubble thing for Catholic mass, that was, I thought, this is going to be a great fit. And to be honest, it took interpreting for the Catholic mass for me, even hear really what the message was, I went to a Catholic high school all through elementary and high school, and I could not have told you what the Catholic message was, until I started to interpret it because you have to, you know, think about it process. You do, even though it really is a lot of rote things you still have to process in order to get that out. And so I learned a lot about the Catholic church. While I was interpreting for that.
Tina:Yeah, Gina Wallace was my, my go to, she was my mentor. And she helped me a lot with that. So I would get the script beforehand. Boy did I have to look things up? And this and that. So sounds like something that you might have been doing as well.
Dee Dee:Exactly. With alongside Gina. Yeah, it was great.
Tina:So interpreting in different religion, what do you consider religious, a religious setting?
Dee Dee:Oh, it includes so many things, obviously, church, but it could even be a worship concert. Or it could even be counseling, you know, you go for mental health counseling. And if that person has a religious background, or believes in God and leans on God for their strength, it becomes a religious setting. You're you're going to be talking about God, and you're going to be talking about things that require many of those religious signs.
Tina:Wow, that's a great point. That's not been brought up before and I see that you've worked in the mental health settings. So you were probably exposed to that. Let's, let's take us to the church setting since it is the most popular. Do you think it's necessary for an interpreter to know the Bible before accepting an assignment? Now I'm not talking about the one day oh, we need you for one day, I'm talking about ongoing I'm going to be the church's interpreter.
Dee Dee:Right. For being the church's interpreter. Yes, definitely. But I would say even for that one off where the regular church interpreter is not there and you're going to come in and sub in order for that message to make sense, I think you have to have a basic understanding at least have a basic familiarity with some of the stories. Because a story is mentioned, a Bible story is mentioned, but they don't always expand on it. If you don't know what that refers to, you're not gonna be able to interpret accurately. And your your audience will be watching. And they're the ones who are going to have to do the work instead of you doing the work to figure out what on earth you're talking about. So in order for it to be an accurate rendering, yes, I do believe that you you need to know, at least a little bit about the Bible.
Tina:Yeah, I agree with you. And you know, the other part of that is you, you're talking about if I know what it was, sometimes it helps to make some good predictions skills as well, you know, prediction. Yeah. I know where we're going with a story. So yeah. Again, we just talked about different settings, but within the church itself, what types of interpretations would you do, like Bible study? Give me some examples of what goes on in a church that they may also need your services for?
Dee Dee:Sure. So of course, the worship service itself has so many different aspects. There's everything from making the announcement, to when someone is praying, and that prayer could be corporate, where everyone is saying the prayer and it sounds like learn mumble mumble mumble. Right? So if you're not familiar, yeah, you're, you're in trouble. And then an individual praying at our church, when we have communion often, I mean, we are a very diverse church, and often they'll have someone come up and read a verse in a different language. That's helpful(laughter). I don't, I don't know Arabic, I'll just look this one up, you know. So there's that. So that's, that's, you know, different. Then, of course, if you think about singing, there's the worship songs from the front where there's the whole team with all the music and the lights and whatever. And there's corporate, where everyone is singing. And again, it can sound like(mumbling sounds).
Tina:I do know that song.
Dee Dee:Yeah. And there's there are people who give performances, there are, you know, the whole choir gets up there. Or it could be a single individual with a guitar and you're like, Oh, this is very quiet, very different than normal, you know, you have your sermon. And again, at our church, very diverse, we have lots of different speakers. And so accents, they'll invite missionaries in to come and, and preach and things of that nature. So it's there's a lot that's involved in that. And then when they just want to add a little spice to the worship service, well, by you're going to get an interview with someone, or maybe you show a movie clip, or, Oh, here's a video recap of everything that's happened since the last time we asked you for money, you know that. (laughter) So it's literally everything under the sun, is what can happen during a worship service. And then of course, you have, you know, just a Bible study. And that could be, you know, two or three women up to, you know, 25. And they break out into groups, and they have large meetings with things going on, and then break up into smaller meetings. And, again, your skills have to be diverse in order to be able to handle all of those situations.
Tina:Speaking of different languages, and you may not have experience with this, but have you ever experienced speaking in tongues? Or a congregation that speaks in tongues?
Dee Dee:I have not been I think the closest I've come in if people are agreeing with what the pastor saying, and they shout out, or they might, you know, have a sentence or something that they say, but not truly speaking in tongues? No.
Tina:Okay, so how do you prepare for your interpreting religious interpreting assignments?
Dee Dee:That's a great question. We kind of touched on it already. But at our church, we have something called Planning Center. And that's the software that they use in order to plan out the service. And I've been given access to that. So I can go in, see what the songs are, they attached YouTube videos of the artists singing those songs, so then I have an opportunity to practice in real time. They, most of the time, I won't say every single time, but most of the time, I'll receive the sermon message ahead of time. So I have a chance to read it. It was interesting when COVID hit, and everything went online. I not only had you know all these little tidbits, I have the entire service, and I then would be able to watch the entire service myself, practice interpreting it, and then I would tell my husband, okay, honey, it's for real now turn on the camera. And he would, you know, turn on the camera and I would be able to record the entire service and then send that back in for processing and they would show that on Sunday morning. And so there's there's lots of different ways. And even just since I've started back two years ago, I have learned of different resources of where you can go to even find, oh, the entire Bible is interpreted in ASL really, there's Deaf Bibles? okay. And so there's a passage in the message and I'm like, I have no idea what to do with this. I can go on Deaf Bible, and I can see what they've done with it. I won't come up with the exact same thing I can never memorize, you know, anything of that nature. But it's like, Oh, I understand. Oh, that's the important part. Gotcha, gotcha. So where I might look at it and focus too much on the English.
Tina:Tell, can you send that resource to me, the Deaf Bible resource so that we can post that? Sure. Okay. So you sound and of course, I know you and I already know the answer to this question. You sound pretty assertive in the fact that oh, yeah, you let them know what you need. And I think that's another part that people forget , one of those soft skills, if you will, you need to be assertive, you need to tell them, this is what I need to in order to do my job, effectively. How do you go about doing that?
Dee Dee:Well, one of the things actually, that I've learned here at FEMA is 80% of almost every job is relationships. There are skills, there are things that have to get done. But truly relationship, if you can create a relationship with the people who need to know and the people that you need to give you information, it makes life so much easier. And so when I am becoming the interpreter at a church, not just a one off, I do have the opportunity to meet the pastor, meet the worship leader, meet the people who need to give me information. You know, if they have a coordinator for special needs, or something like that, I can meet that person and say, this would really be helpful for me, is there any way to get a monitor? I've been told"no". You know, but I'll always ask. I've also done, I don't know if you remember Women of Faith. Oh my gosh, huge event. Yeah. So I've done women of faith. And that was one of the things that we always did, it was like, Okay, we need to make sure we have lighting, we need to have a music stand or something to put our prep materials on, we you know, there's certain things we need. And if you don't ask about those, they're not going to think of it. You have to tell people what you need. It's kind of like expecting someone to know something that they that it's just not their specialty. If I was going to go into a gourmet restaurant, and they want me to make some sort of a pastry, you know, I like whip up a cheesecake at home, it's not gonna look that good. You know, I don't have those tools. I don't even know what to ask for. I have no idea. So my specialty is interpreting. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make you aware of what I need as the interpreter. This is this is how we're going to be successful today. Because the interpreter is not there just for deaf people. I know that sounds horrible. It we're there to make language accessible to everyone it's not it's not that I'm here for the deaf person. I'm here for the hearing people to be able to communicate effectively with the deaf person as well.
Tina:Exactly. That's a great point. I think that's a great point. So just getting yourself prepared to be there. I know other people have said, I get I get there early, I prepare to stay late because sometimes the pastor or the minister tends to go on. I know my husband does the very same thing. But so is it okay for an interpreter to charge for their services in a religious church setting?
Dee Dee:It really is. Especially if the people who are doing the one off, this is not their church, this is not their ministry, they are doing a job on a Sunday morning, or Wednesday night or whenever it is. They're doing a job. So yes, I think that they should charge. But if this is my church, I don't think it's it's a problem, If I don't charge. I'm this is part of my ministry. This is what I have built into my life. This is This is life blood for me. It's not an obligation. It's not a requirement for me. It's something I want to do. And so I might volunteer. But if somebody is coming in and this isn't their church, then yes, I think the church should pay them and not have an expectation that they'll just work for free.
Tina:Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I think many times interpreters are fearful to say, you know, I charge this much per hour. And I think it's, I think it's one of those things that ,first of all, communicate with the church. If it is your church, you can work that out maybe as part of your gift giving or whatever. But there are ways around it. But I, I just I think sometimes interpreters are afraid to charge for that service. It's totally up to you what what you want to do. And I think if you feel so moved to do it as a gift, I think that's perfectly fine.
Dee Dee:Right? I just thought of another setting Tina. Yes. wedding and funeral. Yeah. And what made me think of it is like, Oh, do you charge your friend, If you're going to do their wedding? If we're going to interpret their wedding? Do you charge you know? And if they were asking you as a friend, then you might feel like, oh, wow, I'm uncomfortable saying this is what I charge. But if they're just saying, Oh, hey, we need an interpreter. And we know we understand you. And this is, how much do you charge?, then you really shouldn't feel like, oh, gosh, I can't say you know, and anytime you want, if you want to give a discount, like let's say, a really small church, and they're inviting you, and they really want to build up their deaf community or something, okay. I might not charge my my regular freelance rate, I might give a discounted rate. And I think that's fine, too. But if I'm, if I'm going into a megachurch, and I know they have a budget, and they really want to start providing interpreters, if I say, oh, you know what, no, nevermind, I'm just going to charge 10 bucks an hour, they're going to have that expectation. And when they set their budget, hello, I have just ruined everything for future, you know,
Tina:And know exactly the point I like to hear you say is, you're setting precedents. So I think it's important that if you, you know, you make some type of agreement to let them know, this may not be what future interpreters do. I'm a part of this church, if I charge this much an hour I'm doing at a discounted rate. But just to understand that other interpreters come in and may charge other professional interpreters will come in and charge a fee, which is, you know, we have to understand, we don't want to set a precedence for future interpreters, that makes it difficult for them to be able to get paid for their services, So have you ever interpreted in a non, quote, non religious setting, like you had to go somewhere and you think, Oh, this is just going to be a non religious setting, and you get there only to find out that it becomes a religious setting?
Dee Dee:Yeah, there's been a couple things that stand out there. And one is when I have accepted doing an assignment that maybe a business dinner, or an award ceremony for a business or something like that, and they come out and someone will open in prayer. If I don't want to accept anything religious, I might think that this business dinner that yeah, that's, that's something I can accept. There comes somebody and they go on this, you know, five minute prayer. Well, it's not like I can say, Yeah, I'm gonna do everything except the prayer, you know, if there's, there's just an aspect that's going to be there. I once did a mental health appointment, and the counselor was not a Christian at all, the deaf person came in and they were, you know, dealing with whatever their problem was, and they very much had a spiritual focus. And so it didn't matter how much that counselor redirected. The signs that were coming at me were definitely spiritual related, you know, so you just never know. Do you go and do an AA meeting? Depending on who the Higher Power is for that person who's giving the lead, you might hear a lot about the Lord. And so I just don't I don't personally think that you can ever say I don't do religious. I don't think it's possible.
Tina:Yeah. I've gone to assignments, many assignments, and it's like, Whoa, this is not what I thought was going to happen. You know? Yeah, this is something totally different. So yeah, I think that's a good point is expect the unexpected.
Dee Dee:Correct.
Tina:Do you feel that interpreting in a church setting is as equally important as interpreting any other setting? And what I mean by that is, I've heard this, like, Oh, you're just interpret in church, you know, you can make mistakes. It's no biggie. What, you know, what the heck, you're probably volunteering and what harm could you do if you make too many mistakes anyway! How do you feel about that?
Dee Dee:Right. I definitely have strong feelings. As you may imagine, yeah, I feel like any church or religious interpreting is just as important as anything else that we're just get put in front of religious interpreting, church interpreter, or educational interpreter as well, which is sad. And I know when I graduated the perception was, if you were a good interpreter when you go graduated, you could do real interpreting, freelance. If you were not so good, then you end up in a school or in a church. ,
Tina:Wow that is a great point. Because I experienced that myself. Working in an educational setting, I really got a lot of flack from my peers about getting out of this interpreting setting. I mean, they really went rough on me.
Dee Dee:Do something real.. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I understand why people think that and part of the reason is that in the church community, most of the time, people have to put up with what they get. There, there's not a line out the door of interpreters saying, you know, what, I can't wait to interpret on a Sunday morning for three hours, I can't wait to do that, and then have maybe not even get paid. It's just not like that, you know, it's just not that. And so churches are desperately looking for people who are willing, and usually your audience, or people who are willing to put up with whatever you can give them. And so, is it less important? No.. Are? Is that audience usually more tolerant? Yes. But it's no less important. And for me, I see this kingdom work. I mean, I've already said, you know, like, this is my ministry, this is how I'm giving back. And I might not feel qualified to preach. I know, I have a lot of experience under many, many teachers. And maybe I don't feel qualified that every week, I could get up and give a message in front of a bunch of deaf people or whatever. So God is asking me to use my skills and my abilities to make his message accessible from the people who have been given that gift of doing those messages on a weekly basis and being called to be in that position, but they just can't give the access. So my job is to give the access.
Tina:That's that was very well said. Very well said. Thank you for that. So I have one more question for you. Before we close, can you give me your, and I'm sure you have a lot. One best piece of advice for somebody who was seeking to become an educational interpreter nope, to become religious, or working in that spiritual field of interpreting what's one piece of advice that you think you really need to hear this?
Dee Dee:it's related to something I've already said, the community is very forgiving. But you can't just assume I've got this, I can go in there. And I'll just do what I can. And you know, they'll they'll work it out. That's not what I am encouraging at all. What I am encouraging is, yeah, find yourself a mentor and get in there. Get in there if you need to start with just interpreting the worship set. Because you can practice that ahead of time. And you know, it's not as scary maybe as the message or interpreting for somebody with a thick accent or other challenges, do the worships. It's very predictable. You you already know what to expect. Go ahead and practice that to your heart's content. And just do that 20 minutes and work with another interpreter, get a mentor who can help you do that. And you sit there and you watch them, you don't you know, peace out after your 20 minutes, sit there and you watch and you learn and you talk to the deaf people. And do that every single week. Do it whenever you have the opportunity. And watch people there's so many messages on YouTube these days. Yeah, back when I when I was learning, I had show up in person, this be in your pajamas, you know, fire it up on a Thursday evening after dinner, go watch, watch, watch, watch, learn. And you know, make your own little practicum about being a church interpreter. And get in there and do it. Don't be so afraid that you're like, never find something you can do. And do it.
Tina:Because it's funny they say,"don't do that until you get experience". Never makes sense.
Dee Dee:Right. And I would say don't turn it down out of fear.
Tina:That's great, that's great advice. You know, I am so glad Dee Dee that you're back into the interpreting field, you kind of took an 18 year break because you were being a wonderful mother and homeschooling your daughters and I'm sure that was such a huge blessing for both of them. So thank you for thank you for doing that. And thank you for getting back into the field. This field so needs interpreters like you and I'm so thankful and I am so thankful that you could take the time out to share all these wonderful insights with us.
Dee Dee:You're very, very welcome. I thank you for the opportunity.
Tina:Absolutely. And to my listening audience and reading audience, this information today is pretty priceless. If you are wanting to become involved in educat, why do I keep doing educational? in the religious,(Dee Dee) my fault (Tina) religious settings, you know, contact me and maybe Dee Dee might be able to become a resource for you as well. But there are other mentors that you can seek out. Even the deaf community would be willing to help you. And I believe Dee Dee said it really nicely. They are forgiving. They want an interpreter to be there at their church services, they want equal access, as well. And, you know, if we could we could just get in there and learn and not think of it as Oh, it's just church. No, it's church. And it's important to the people that go there. So to my listening audience, I hope that you have learned so much today and I really thank you all for listening. Have a blessed day.